The Ref Stop

Promotions - Season Ending 2024

OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Cool, my world is backed by evolutionary biology and psychology.
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Please don't derail this thread. It's about promotions - not some opportunity to shoe in political ideology.

Just accept the fact that not everybody thinks or believes as you do. 👍
 
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The Ref Stop
'Positive discrimination' is an oxymoron and in its literal sense is usually illegal, because it replaces merit based assessment by favouring someone based on a protected characteristic. It makes no difference if the favouritism is towards a group who might have been historically disadvantaged in some way.

That's different from recognising that a group is underrepresented and trying to boost opportunity. Fast track coaching schemes - thumbs up, making supposedly merit-based promotion decisions based on some spurious bias correction factor - just no. Assuming someone you have never met is unconsciously biased against certain groups of people because they 'can't help themselves' - gross oversimplification and just plain rude
 
Quarryref said:
'Positive discrimination' is an oxymoron and in its literal sense is usually illegal, because it replaces merit based assessment by favouring someone based on a protected characteristic. It makes no difference if the favouritism is towards a group who might have been historically disadvantaged in some way.

That's different from recognising that a group is underrepresented and trying to boost opportunity. Fast track coaching schemes - thumbs up, making supposedly merit-based promotion decisions based on some spurious bias correction factor - just no. Assuming someone you have never met is unconsciously biased against certain groups of people because they 'can't help themselves' - gross oversimplification and just plain rude
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Any merit based system based on human marking systems (or even AI ones trained by humans) are subject to unconscious bias. Doesn’t make anyone bad lol. It’s human nature and it just means we can be aware and take steps to avoid it meaning someone gets lower scores on whatever system you have because they aren’t in the majority.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Any merit based system based on human marking systems (or even AI ones trained by humans) are subject to unconscious bias. Doesn’t make anyone bad lol. It’s human nature and it just means we can be aware and take steps to avoid it meaning someone gets lower scores on whatever system you have because they aren’t in the majority.
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I can actually understand what you are saying with this one. 😂
 
So the answer to alleged/suspected unconscious bias in one aspect that may or may not occur at any given moment is to give conscious bias in another to ‘level out’ something that may or may not need levelling out?
 
CA1992 said:
So the answer to alleged/suspected subconscious bias in one aspect that may or may not occur at any given moment is to give conscious bias in another to ‘level out’ something that may or may not need levelling out?
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It does occur, that’s a fact. In the corporate world training is given to recruiters to avoid it happening. That’s one alternative to positive discrimination.
 
Big Cat said:
A Referee below me in the Merit Table was promoted ahead of me. His/Her Club Marks were likely better than mine, but mine were good enough at that point in time to be considered

I'm not that bothered. I'm realistic. I'm a 50 year old bloke, heterosexual, white, born in England Ref who doesn't declare Religious Orientation. I know the world we live in. The only aspect that bothers me, is the FA make claims that the selection is merit based only
I don't believe for a moment that's entirely true
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Doesn’t help that you walk on all fours!

(I am a also miffed at watching refs half my age getting promotion assessments this week. We don’t have a transparent system and argh it’s murky.)
 
It would be true to say that I congratulated one Referee when he was promoted to the EFL despite not giving him a glowing report when I saw him as a L4. It would also be true to say that although I didn’t see eye to eye with a Referee who I saw as a L4 & L3, he became a specialist Assistant who is now on the PL and is one of the best I have ever seen (not as an Observer).
 
Kes said:
MDC Report writer, it's always quite gratifying to see a referee on whom I've reported get promoted
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Not for Match Day Coaching, as they all get promoted if they stick with the process, unless they give up during a period in which they might be held back
 
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