A&H

Player with no name

Quarryref

Well-Known Member
Tricky game at the weekend (u17). Slightly grumpy but uneventful first hour. Then blue and red decide to square up after a nothing challenge. Blue punches red. Red throws one back. They step back for a second then both decide to have another go. I deal with blue, who goes off with no complaint. I then call red over, but he refuses to come and starts heading for the sideline. I call him a couple of times, but he just continues off. I walk after him and one of his colleagues stops him. I ask him for his name and he gives me an answer that sounds dubious (no team sheets to check in this league). I ask him to confirm, which he does. Still not convinced. Before I can tell him he is off he turns and heads for the sideline again. I call him back but he ignores me. I walk to the sideline to be met by manager and dad full of 'the other lad started it', 'it was only self defence' and other similar excuses. I eventually manage to make it clear he is off, but avoid waving a red card as it seems likely to inflame things further. Instead I speak to the captains, made it clear both are off and ask them to calm everyone down. Three things I'd love a view on as a relatively new ref :
1. Should I have followed the player or stood still and demanded he comes back ? Having refused several times don't think he would have done.
2. Checked the league website afterwards and surprise surprise no such player ! Would you have tried to get the name from another player or left it and let the county fa sort it ? I thought asking twice was enough and left it.
3. What about not showing the red card ?
Thanks !
 
The Referee Store
Seems like you handled it well tbh.
1) Never follow a player, invite them to meet you half way as at the end of the day you can report him for refusing to give his name etc.
2) Leave it for county to sort out, you have done your job!
3) Big problem, I had a similar incident few years back, as I never actually showed the red card he got off on a technicality at an appeal, let county know.
 
Firstly I got told on my training to just fill out the report with the name given, even if it is something stupid. This will then allow the county FA to deal with it from there

Secondly, I would have probably stood and demanded and to be honest i would have not worried about the card too much as most people would have probably known where he was going. However if you was bothered i would have just shown the red card in the direction that the player was it.
 
Sounds like you dealt with a tricky situation well mate. Also, if a player gives you a false name or no name at all, still send them off and report the shirt number and club to your county FA and they will do the rest. Personally I would have shown the red card to the player just to be sure everyone there is clear about your decision
 
He has earned himself extra problems - likely to earn his team a playing an unregistered player charge on top of the violent conduct.
 
1) If he's clearly not going to come over to you, then you should go towards him and hope he sees sense. Be firm, be strong but ultimately, if he's going to be a muppet, you haven't got a choice.
2) I personally would probably have asked the captain to confirm his name if I was in any doubt, although that's just a personal choice. Once the player gives you the name, that's the name you are reporting. Leave County to deal with false names!
3) Now you have a problem. If, and it is only if, he chooses to appeal, and he mentions that you never showed the red card, he WILL get off on a technicality. It's a horrible reason why, but you may have shot yourself in the foot.
Speak to your RDO and mention it (speak, not email!)
 
1.) It sounds like it was the best thing going after him but I would always try not to because it undermines your authority if you go chasing a player.
2.) There's nothing you can/should do in that situation, remind him that if he fails to give you his real name the whole club could get suspended until everything is straightened out. On the other hand like I have said in a different thread a mate of mine sent off a Brian Clough and another booked a Michael Mouse, both 100% real names.
3) Finally it shouldn't be a problem, cards don't have to be displayed for a caution or send off to be administered, they are merely there to act as a way of communicating to everybody what is happening (make sure to point this out if it comes to a discipline hearing), but I would strongly recommend showing a card every time but I am sure you have thought that by now. Don't worry about it he will still be punished for the punches thrown.
 
If he's stupid enough not to provide his name, let him deal with the consequences. As long as you report it to the FA, you've done your job. As for the red card, I probably would've shown it to cover myself in the event of an appeal; that's purely a personal preference though.

Believe it or not, I cautioned Bob Marley for dissent earlier on this season :D He still got his fine, and a nice ban for giving a false name!
 
my old man once sent a report to our county, informing them he had sent off Michael Mouse. He asked the player twice to confirm/change the name given and he refused, so he went ahead and reported it accordingly. Other players told him his real name after the match, which was also sent to county for their information, but Michael Mouse was on the send off report!
 
If he's given you a false name, then club gets fined/punished for fielding an unregistered player - once it hits the club coffers they will probably come down pretty heavy on the player! Although if there are no team cards required, how they would administer player registration is a mystery.

As far as actually showing the cards go, I was always told that you don't necessarily have to produce the card fro it to count, as long as the player in question is given no doubt that they are being cautioned/sent-off. The cards are simply for those watching. In your situation I would probably have shown the card to his back, with a clear "You're sent-off player!"

I once sent-off a guy for saying "I'm not playing any more, you're a f###g cheat!" to me as he removed his shirt and walked to the touchline. Called him back and he did turn round to see the red.

After, I got it in the neck from his coach and a couple of supporters "Ref! It's only a yellow for removing your shirt!" lmao....."Yeah, I know, that wasn;t what the card was for!"
 
Below is the FA recommendation but not law on the sending off procedure, personally I would always show the red card. Also in terms of names report what you are told but there is nothing wrong with checking with club secretary post match. I referee in a league that actually have a Michael Mouse playing, he has made a few ref's look silly as he often gets the response "yeah right pull the other one"




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Not showing the Red card does not nullify the reported offence, you're clearly aware of your 'error' (FA's word not mine)

On the day the club are responsible for their players and their conduct, another day you might verify the name with a club official, if they won't identify him, report as 'un-named player' of XXXX FC, your county will soon give them a 'financial incentive' to produce him and his name!

Club's are often charged with failing to control their players in cases like this, sounds like you tried to manage the situation, you can't be blamed for a player's poor behaviour.

ABC when reporting, Accurate-Brief-Clear, then move on.........let your county sort it out
 
With the showing the card incident, I was under the impression that you do not have to show the card. As long as the player knows what sanction you have given him, then you are ok. The introduction of yellow and red cards was to let the other players, coachers and spectators know what punishment the player has received.

I remember this incident, because I was at the game I think, and have found it.
 
I have had similar where I was unable to show the card because he left the field anway. You can avoid any technicality get out by reporting the entire incident. I have a copy of the report saved and it goes like this:

"The Incident that came under my notice was as follows: I awarded a throw to CFC after the above player kicked the ball out. As a CFC player attempted to take the throw-in the above player grabbed him by the throat with both hands. I repeatedly blew thw whistle and he let go before turning at me and shouting "You can f-ing send me off. I don't f-ing care. He immediately left the field and headed for the car park. I sent him off for the violent conduct even though I was unable to show him the red card, and he made no attempt to come back on the field."

6 months ban, no appeal.
 
In these cases, I find you often look worse for standing around and calling for a player to come over. If he's clearly not going to come after a few, just go towards him, within 10 yards, show the red card to his back (not ideal but it's the best you can do), ask the captain for his name and report exactly what happened in your report.
 
I would have checked with someone from the club for the name. I would have shown him the red card. I wouldn't have followed him off.
 
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