RefSix

Player refusing to approach you

Degnann

SFA Rookie
Level 7 Referee
If you ask a player to approach you, lets say in tbis occasion for a and they down right refuse to even going as far as saying no.

would you be producing two yellows/red or a straight red.
You may be able to argue that is still a gesture.

I appreciate both result in the same action. Asking more so for administration reasons.

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JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
If you ask a player to approach you, lets say in tbis occasion for a and they down right refuse to even going as far as saying no.

would you be producing two yellows/red or a straight red.
You may be able to argue that is still a gesture.

I appreciate both result in the same action. Asking more so for administration reasons.

View attachment 4423
I'd say it was more dissent than an offensive insulting or abusive gesture. I'd be going yellow for the first offence and another yellow/temporary dismissal or yellow/red depending on whether your league uses sin bins or not.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Employ the neutral meeting place tactic. Or give the captain the opportunity to do their job. Traipsing around in pursuit of the player isn't an option. Pointing at the sin bin from afar is the unwanted last resort. Not a lot different from daily life as a parent!
 

Degnann

SFA Rookie
Level 7 Referee
We don’t do sin bins up here from what I’ve seen in any league. So it would definitely be a yellow/red scenario.
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Agree there’s no chasing. There’s not an expectation where I am to collect names on the field, so it easier to simply be clear about the caution and not focus on the player not coming. But if you have to have the conversation, I agree that it is a good time to use the captain. Not really someth8 g I would want to expand to a send off. (And again could be something fed by watching on TV. The big boys don’t have to go to the refs cuz the pro refs don’t need to take names.)
 

Jtpetherick1

Member
Level 4 Referee
Easy one. At most I'll step a few yards to 'meet the player' halfway but I'm not chasing. Its the easiest way ever to lose control and shoot your own confidence. I'm calling the player to me - giving him a second and then shouting telling the captain that if the player isn't joining me he's getting a yellow (second yellow) for dissent. Either the captain gets the player over, or has no space to moan when he's shown that yellow.
 

Scotty Ref

Member
Level 3 Referee
To be honest it’s not a situation that occurs very often, I can only think of a few occasions in 20+ years where I’ve had anything like this.

When I started in the 90s it was common to move 10-15 yards away from the player, summon them and then expect them to dutifully follow you over like a naughty school boy, thankfully those days are gone. Any time you need to isolate a player it’s much easier to find a neutral place that you can both walk to, I would normally shout “4 over here please” while pointing to a spot somewhere between us or to the side. 95% of the time the player automatically follows.

In the other 5% normally a quick blast on the whistle and another shout to the player is enough to get them to come in. If there was a complete refusal I’d get the captain involved, maybe saying “he’s on a yellow if he doesn’t come in it will be 2”, normally that will be enough to have the offender comply. If the player still refuses you would need to consider 2 yellows followed by red but depending on the level of the match this could become problematic.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Who is the one with authority is a battle no referee can afford to lose.

Every situation/game is different. You have a few options, some explained above. Summary

- Use the captain
- loud warning for second yellow. Must follow through
- read player state of mind. Get there yourself before the battle starts. Make it look like you were already heading that way. No battle, no loss of authority.
- meet half way, start with a body language to convince player he is not losing face to meet you half way
- don't waste time with captain or warnings and go straight for the second yellow.
- any other option I have missed

the fourth one is my favourite one but only you would know which works/fits best in your specific game situation.
 

deusex

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
To be honest it’s not a situation that occurs very often, I can only think of a few occasions in 20+ years where I’ve had anything like this.

When I started in the 90s it was common to move 10-15 yards away from the player, summon them and then expect them to dutifully follow you over like a naughty school boy, thankfully those days are gone. Any time you need to isolate a player it’s much easier to find a neutral place that you can both walk to, I would normally shout “4 over here please” while pointing to a spot somewhere between us or to the side. 95% of the time the player automatically follows.

In the other 5% normally a quick blast on the whistle and another shout to the player is enough to get them to come in. If there was a complete refusal I’d get the captain involved, maybe saying “he’s on a yellow if he doesn’t come in it will be 2”, normally that will be enough to have the offender comply. If the player still refuses you would need to consider 2 yellows followed by red but depending on the level of the match this could become problematic.
No problem at all.
2nd caution for dissent.
You've given him every chance and given the captain a go at fixing it.
If you don't caution here your match control is gone
 

Scotty Ref

Member
Level 3 Referee
No problem at all.
2nd caution for dissent.
You've given him every chance and given the captain a go at fixing it.
If you don't caution here your match control is gone

Match control is an interesting concept in this one.

Pub football/ Low amateur level 2nd caution for this aids match control, send the message to obey and respect the authority of the referee.

At a higher level a 2nd caution for this is going to have the complete opposite effect on match control and will make a rod for your own back. How many times at high level games have we seen cards being shown to players as they walk away etc. A 2nd caution at this level will bring more issues than good.

Technically there’s nothing in the Laws that say players must come to refs if asked. Just show the card and get on with it.
 

deusex

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Mike Riley literally set player behaviour back about 10 years (and killed Respect the Ref in it's crib) when he let Ashely Cole make a complete mug of him in 2008.

Warning: clip contains cringe


Ironically Cole should have been sent off for the tackle!
Do not EVER let a player make you look this big of a fool! It has ramifications further down the line when next weeks ref either has to clean up your mess or is also weak and gets torn to bits!
 

Degnann

SFA Rookie
Level 7 Referee
Mike Riley literally set player behaviour back about 10 years (and killed Respect the Ref in it's crib) when he let Ashely Cole make a complete mug of him in 2008.

Warning: clip contains cringe


Ironically Cole should have been sent off for the tackle!
Do not EVER let a player make you look this big of a fool! It has ramifications further down the line when next weeks ref either has to clean up your mess or is also weak and gets torn to bits!
I personally don’t think Riley done anything wrong here. He got Cole himself, sharp blast of the whistle to turn him around, card shown? unless I am missing something.

are you suggesting a second yellow?
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I’d be inclined to agree. I’ve seen worse clips than that. (Unless of course we’ve both missed something 😂)
Nope, I'm jumping on board with you here. Aside from the poor initial decision, this is a pretty good example of what should be done before reaching for a second yellow.

I think he was close and would have been deserving of a double-yellow if he'd refused to turn round (and you could have also booked any one of Drogba, Lampard etc for getting involved in something nothing to do with them), but of all the things you could use to slate Riley, this isn't one of them for me.
 

deusex

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
If that's not dissent then I'd like to see a clip of what is.
About as high profile an act of dissent as there has ever been, and Riley bottled it.
 

Jtpetherick1

Member
Level 4 Referee
My big question is why there is so much aggro from Chelsea about the call? In a 2020 PL that would be a red, I don't see how there's a debate about the call even before a card is shown?
 

Degnann

SFA Rookie
Level 7 Referee
If that's not dissent then I'd like to see a clip of what is.
About as high profile an act of dissent as there has ever been, and Riley bottled it.
I strongly disagree. If Riley sends Cole off for that then his control of the game is definitely gone compared to what happened. In my opinion of course
 

deusex

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I strongly disagree. If Riley sends Cole off for that then his control of the game is definitely gone compared to what happened. In my opinion of course
I'm not sure what you disagree with. You think stated Riley decided to ignore a blatant act of dissent to make his game easier? (ie bottled it)...
I think we're in agreement.
 

Jtpetherick1

Member
Level 4 Referee
Here's one - you give a free kick or a corner. A nothing decision but a player starts mouthing off about it, yelling and telling you its the worst decision ever etc. Its not OFFINABUS so no red but you go yellow for dissent (assuming you're in a league/nation with no sin bins).

THEN the player refuses to join you for the caution - does that affect your call? We still going second yellow? Two yellows for dissent over the same incident (admittedly a different moment).
 
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