Offside - why do we have it?
- Thread starter Kent Ref
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socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Well, it used to be even more draconian than it is now--go to FIFA's site, and you can find a history. It was designed to prevent attackers from just lurking around the goal to get cheap goals. Originally, as I recall, teammates had to be behind the ball to be onside (except on goal kicks). It was third-to-last defender for some period of time, it was then even-is-off with the 2LD, and it was enough to "attempt to gain an advantage" (applied very broadly) until sometime around the '80s. There has been a long path of making it harder to be offside and only penalizing those who actually do something important after being off.
The old NASL in the US had IFAB permission to use a 35 yard offside line for a few years in the hope it would open up the midfield more. It didn't have the hoped for effect. The most positive impact it had, as I recall, is it allowed over-the-hill famous strikers to keep playing, as they only had to go back to the halfway line if someone scored.
I think not having OS at all would radically change the game, and not in good ways. It would force defenses to bunker, which I think would give us less attractive soccer, not more attractive soccer.
Less radical changes, like not having OS on touches from inside the PA would be less radical--though difficult to apply.
The old NASL in the US had IFAB permission to use a 35 yard offside line for a few years in the hope it would open up the midfield more. It didn't have the hoped for effect. The most positive impact it had, as I recall, is it allowed over-the-hill famous strikers to keep playing, as they only had to go back to the halfway line if someone scored.
I think not having OS at all would radically change the game, and not in good ways. It would force defenses to bunker, which I think would give us less attractive soccer, not more attractive soccer.
Less radical changes, like not having OS on touches from inside the PA would be less radical--though difficult to apply.
Agree with @socal lurker - offside exists to allow defences to push forward and play a "high line" with confidence. Absent offside, any team trying to position their defenders further than about 20 yards from goal would find an attacker waiting in that gap and the game mostly consisting of the opponent hoofing the ball towards them to chase over and over.
This comes from origins in rugby of course, where you still have to be behind the ball to receive it. The challenge and skill in both games relies on taking territory by going forward with the ball, so it was deemed unsporting to be able to knock it forward to someone who's just waiting for it.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
I remember and have seen on old clips some of what now seem to us, ludicrous, offside decisions.
One in particular I remember at QPR was when the goalkeeper punted the ball straight into the oppo goal, only for it to be disallowed because an attacker was watching the ball sail over his head, about 40 yards from goal but standing in an 'offside' position!
One in particular I remember at QPR was when the goalkeeper punted the ball straight into the oppo goal, only for it to be disallowed because an attacker was watching the ball sail over his head, about 40 yards from goal but standing in an 'offside' position!
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
There is still one vestige of those old days lurking in the magic book. In Law 11, part 4, it still refers to a player leaving the field to not be involved in active play. This used to make sense, as it was how a player showed he was not attempting to gain an advantage. It really makes no sense in the modern game, but remains lurking in the Laws.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I don't think it is quite accurate to say that Rugby was the origin. Yes, when Rugby split from AsSOCiation Football (SOCcer), Rugby wrote that down first, but it was one of many rules floating around that was also used for a period of time in Soccer.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
The residual text is there to confirm that an attacker can step off the f. o. p. to avoid becoming actively involved re offside and would not be penalised for leaving the f. o. p. as a result.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
That’s a true statement, but it really has nothing to do with the game today. That used to be a real thing players did. The way offside works today, it’s never going to happen. That provision is like an appendix--it’s just there because it’s always been there, even though it has no current function.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Funnily enough, it happened in a game in April where I was the referee observer. . . the ball was played wide right by a red team player, to within two metres of the touchline. Nearest red was the 7, who stood still as he was in an offside position. The red 4 shouted "Look out, Dave" as he ran from his own half towards the ball.
The 7 stepped back, over the touchline, as the 4 ran through and got the ball.
A corner kick resulted.
The white team manager asked why the 7 wasn't given offside, so I explained that he hadn't gone to the ball, played it, or affected the whites' ability to do so.
After the game, the referee rang for the debrief discussion (Covid rules) and at the end asked about the player having left the f. o. p. during the build up - I congratulated him on noticing and explained about the rider in Law 11.
Yes, it's very rare, but worth leaving in the good book for odd occasions like this one.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
In the play you describe, nothing more happened then a player leaving the field of play on the ordinary course of play. indeed, as you describe it, the player did not step off the field to not be in play, but to get out of his teammate’s way. The special provision was unnecessary. I definitely agree it does no harm, but I have never seen a play in the modern era where it actually mattered. It absolutely would not not be in the Laws today except for the fact that it used to be a very real issue.
ClioMZ
Researcher
Hi @ all, espeicially @Kent Ref , @socal lurker & @ChasObserverRefDeveloper,
on the history and also the purpose of the offside rule, there are a few posts in English at Nachspielzeiten:
The article about a variety of experiments around the offside rule is unfortunately only in German (Abseits – in dubio pro reo?). That's why I'm translating it into English:
(Surprise! There have also been trials without the offside rule).
Proposals to only penalise offside at a certain distance from the goal are now exactly 100 years old, with the distance from the goals varying depending on the proposal and experiment - indeed, it has been experimented with. These are used by the IFAB to test the usefulness for proposed changes. As none of the experiments on offside were conclusive enough, the rule was not changed accordingly.
No offside at all?
What was already common practice in Sheffield FC matches from 1858 to 1867 was tested in an unnamed English-Italian competition in 1972. As early as 1929, the British Isles were discussing this change, which England supported. Scotland, on the other hand, feared the near-goal duels for the ball by strikers lurking at the goal.
If you want to know more about the evolution of the Laws of the Game, feel free to ask me. I have a very extensive knowledge. I'm also happy to talk about the other rules. Or just have a look at Nachspielzeiten, because I have translated most of the articles on the evolution of the rules into English.
(If you're wondering what my sources are: All IFAB minutes (yes, since 1886) and various football rulebooks before 1886.)
Best wishes,
Petra
on the history and also the purpose of the offside rule, there are a few posts in English at Nachspielzeiten:
- Football Offside: When was the offside rule introduced?
- What is the purpose of the offside law?
- The Evolution of Law 11
The article about a variety of experiments around the offside rule is unfortunately only in German (Abseits – in dubio pro reo?). That's why I'm translating it into English:
(Surprise! There have also been trials without the offside rule).
Proposals to only penalise offside at a certain distance from the goal are now exactly 100 years old, with the distance from the goals varying depending on the proposal and experiment - indeed, it has been experimented with. These are used by the IFAB to test the usefulness for proposed changes. As none of the experiments on offside were conclusive enough, the rule was not changed accordingly.
- Offside in the goal area only: This experiment in England did not take place within an FA competition, so no permission was needed from the IFAB. Stanley Rous, FA Secretary for many years, responsible for the first major rule reform in 1938 and FIFA President in the post-war period, mentions this experiment in his book " A History of the Laws of Association Game" published shortly afterwards: "This change, in what was admittedly a limited experiment, did not seem to produce a marked increase in the goals scored, but part of this might well be due to the fact that the players concerned had such deeply engrained responses concerning the possibility of off-side that they did not exploit the new freedom to the fullest extent. The judgement of this experiment must be not-proven." (Source: Rous, Stanley/Ford, Donald: A History of the Laws of Association Game. Zurich [1970s]. S. 138.)
- Offside only inside the penalty area: Tested alternately in England, Northern Ireland and Scotland from 1971-1974, including the Scottish League Cup and the Dryborough Cup in the 1973/74 and 1974/75 seasons. A new proposal by the Welsh FA in 2005 did not receive the necessary majority.
- Offside only outside the penalty area: was tested in England in 1972.
- Offside only 18 yd in front of goal, i.e. also to the side of the penalty area: was tested in Scotland in 1972, in Italy at the 1991 Men's Under-17 World Cup and in Sweden and Finland in 1992.
- Offside only 25 yd in front of goal: Scotland's proposal was rejected in 1920 and an experiment was not allowed in Scotland in 1974.
- Offside only 35 yd in front of goal: was tested in the USA from 1978 to 1981.
- Offside only 40 yd in front of goal: Corresponding proposals during the 1920s on the part of England and Scotland were rejected in 1920, 1921, 1922 and 1929, postponed in 1923 until 1925. Likewise proposals to test this change for the time being.
- Thirds of the pitch, offside only in the outer thirds: This proposal was tested in England "in public trial matches played prior to the opening of their respective playing seasons 1949/50".
- Free-kick without offside: "In the 1987/88 season in the English 5th division, they trailed no offside from a free-kick. It didn't go well and resulted in defenders packing the six-yard box." (Thanks to Dale Johnson, ESPN)
No offside at all?
What was already common practice in Sheffield FC matches from 1858 to 1867 was tested in an unnamed English-Italian competition in 1972. As early as 1929, the British Isles were discussing this change, which England supported. Scotland, on the other hand, feared the near-goal duels for the ball by strikers lurking at the goal.
If you want to know more about the evolution of the Laws of the Game, feel free to ask me. I have a very extensive knowledge. I'm also happy to talk about the other rules. Or just have a look at Nachspielzeiten, because I have translated most of the articles on the evolution of the rules into English.
(If you're wondering what my sources are: All IFAB minutes (yes, since 1886) and various football rulebooks before 1886.)
Best wishes,
Petra
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Very interesting - thank you, Petra.
The English Italian competition was the Anglo Italian Cup, which had its own rules like 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw, and 1 point for every goal scored!
They experimented with the offside law but it was not a success.
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
Actually, when the codes diverged, it was Association Football that was established first (and with an offside law that said anyone in front of the ball was in an offside position).
Rugby Football didn't get its first set of official laws until 1870 - 7 years after the founding of the Football Association and the publishing of its first set of laws in 1863.
So in a sense, football (soccer) had an offside law before rugby but only in terms of the first officially-promulgated rulesets for them.
Because of course, both codes were based on the earlier sets of laws for the different versions of what was known generally as football and which all had an offside law - except for the Sheffield Rules, which from 1858 till at least 1863 (and possibly 1867) had no offside law.
I always think it's a little ironic that the publishing of the first set of laws for Association Football led on to the complete separation of the two codes, when it was originally intended to be a set of laws that would unify the different sets of laws under one banner.
I often say this, but if you look at the first Laws of the Game from 1863, they describe a game that is much closer to modern rugby than it is to modern football. In fact I reckon that if you saw a game played under those original laws, you would think you were watching a strange form of rugby with a round ball and a little less use of the hands.
The Sheffield Rules as stated had no offside for a number of years. What it led to was a couple of attacking players being left constantly up by the opponent's goal. They were known as "kick-throughs" and the tactic evolved of just hoofing long balls up the pitch for them to run on to. Sheffield lobbied hard for the newly evolved Football Association to adopt a no offside approach but in the end (possibly in the cause of gaining unity of Laws) removed it from their own rules.
And I thought Big Sam came from Dudley, not Sheffield.
ClioMZ
Researcher
In fact, the singular form is used in German: Nachspielzeit (die).Next time somebody asks me how long's left, I'll simply yell 'Nachspielzeiten'
ClioMZ
Researcher
Thanks for the tip!
ClioMZ
Researcher
It is true that the rules of association football existed before the first rugby rules. Simply because the association existed before that. But rugby didn't come out of nowhere.
The fact is that under the term football there were a very large number of different rules in the 19th century (every public school, club, etc. had its own). These were a mix of football and rugby, one would say today. Sometimes 80% (association) football, sometimes 30% football, sometimes 45%.
When people played against each other, they either decided before the game to
a) play according to the rules of one of the two clubs or
b) to mix the two sets of rules into a new one.
c) to play one half according to Team A's rules and the second half according to Team B's rules.
Current research also suggests that the game of football (in its various forms) originated in Scotland. (Even before it was introduced in public schools so that pupils could learn the gentlemanly ideals through the game - it was more or less rugby in almost all schools at that time.)
Even the FA Rules were not constant for a long time.
For example, there was the fair catch until 1871.
There was a season when touchdowns were added to the rules to determine the winner (in the event of a draw, the number of additional touchdowns scored behind the goal decided ... in Sheffield this variant existed for several years as "rouge").
For many years, the first person to touch the ball after it had gone out of bounds over the touchline threw the ball in. This means that the players all went after the ball, probably threw themselves at it ... very similar to rugby.
These are just a few examples to show that the rules were not just made up. They came into being. They changed constantly, then as now. The rules are the essence of the game of football and the rules and the game are interdependent.
Example: The change of the offside rule in 1866 made combination game possible. The defensive tactic of the back pass led to the introduction of the back pass rule.
It is an eternal development, similar to an evolution.
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