Offside - restart where from?

[Viking]

LOTG clearly state the offside offence occurs when the player in the offside position plays/touches the ball etc. Therefore the IFK is taken from where the offence occurs, including potentially the offender's own half. The FA website even includes a question that confirms their own half.

Why is it then that the majority of offside offences are flagged from and the IFK taken from where the offside player was positioned when the ball was initially kicked to him and not from where the offside offence occured? I can't see anything in the LOTG that backs that up.

 

[cwyeary]

Because that used to be the law and it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks.

 

[Viking]

But this is happening in every televised game.

 

[santa sangria]

Because it’s far too much hassle to educate players on this at any level. Also assessors (in my experience) don’t care. And a lot of NARs don’t help by standing still where they flagged and pointing across the field, even though they should know the IDFK should be taken 25m further back.

On one hand this does my nut. It should be easy.

On the other hand, there’s nothing in the laws about where to take the IDFK in the exceptional cases where there is an early flag (only player running into corner, GK collision). So, unfortunately the LotG is not helping.

It’s a nonsense mess at all levels that should be fixed.

(Did I get an offside IDFK moved back 25m to the “right place” 10 mins into a video review game only for it to help destroy my control and morale... oh yes... making the mistakes so you don’t have to)...

 

[RustyRef]

Falls into the "does it really matter" category. At top levels the team taking the free kick normally just want to put the ball down and play sideways (unless they are Cardiff ..!), so if the referee was fussy about ball placement it would just unnecessarily slow the game down.

 

[PinnerPaul]

I've seen one free kick given in own half for offside at QPR and both sets of players, both benches and the whole crowd (except me!) totally confused - so you can see why most take easy way out.

 

[Big Cat]

I think @Viking makes a good point in the OP
Randomly, some things really matter, whilst many Laws are completely ignored. The exact location of offside seems only important when it's in the attacker's defensive half; and that's only so refs can marvel at themselves

 

[Trip]

But this is happening in every televised game.

Funnily enough there was a televised premiership game quite soon after the new law was introduced and the IDFK was taken inside the offside player' own half. Both commentators said that's ridiculous, how could he be offside there?

 

[JH]

I don't have a problem with the IDFK being taken from where the flag went up. Unless you're flagging far too early (except attacker running through to keeper), the flag will be there or thereabouts.

 

[Peter Grove]

The IFAB said that they changed the location of the restart because this would make it consistent with all other offences where the restart is taken from where the offence occurred. I think that's not necessarily a strong enough argument. Firstly, I don't think consistency is an absolute requirement - or, as Ralph Waldo Emerson put it: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Offside is an offence which is unlike all others in its nature, so I don't see that it should be consistent with other offences in terms of its restart. No other offence involves two separate events that occur distinct from each other in both time and space, in the way that offside does. The second part of it - involvement in active play - is indeed the culmination of the offence but just as the first part (being in an offside position) is not an offence in and of itself, neither is being involved in active play. I think it's a slightly fallacious argument to say that the offence only occurs where the player becomes active - it really only becomes an offence when both components occur in combination with each other and as far as I'm concerned, being in an offside position when the ball is touched by a team mate is just as important a part of the offence as being involved in active play. So I think it's arguable as to where the offence truly occurs since in one sense it actually occurs in two separate locations.

Then I think there's a conceptual component of what is really at the heart of the offside offence. For me, offside is all about a player trying to gain what is seen as an unfair advantage in attacking his opponent's goal. So it's essentially an attacking offence, which for me, makes it counter-intuitive that it should lead to a free kick in the offending player's defensive half of the field.

There are also the logistical problems thrown up by having an offence being flagged for by the assistant referee in the opposite half to the one he is patrolling and having to find a way to coordinate with the referee over the location of it.

Finally, for me it's an unnecessary change that causes more problems than it solves. It hasn't improved the game in any meaningful way as far as I can tell and it seems like a change made more or less for change's sake with no real upside to it.

 

[AlexF]

The IFAB said that they changed the location of the restart because this would make it consistent with all other offences where the restart is taken from where the offence occurred.
[...]
Offside is an offence which is unlike all others in its nature, so I don't see that it should be consistent with other offences in terms of its restart. No other offence involves two separate events that occur distinct from each other in both time and space, in the way that offside does. The second part of it - involvement in active play - is indeed the culmination of the offence but just as the first part (being in an offside position) is not an offence in and of itself, neither is being involved in active play. I think it's a slightly fallacious argument to say that the offence only occurs where the player becomes active

IFAB's big push on the big rewrite was to introduce consistency across the board -- there were already far too many "exceptions to the rule". The offside one? Just another of those. They still haven't eliminated all of the exceptions, but they've made it a LOT easier for new referees to figure stuff out.

In terms of offside being two separate events, it's the same idea as a player receiving the equivalent of a red card (2nd caution or straight red), but advantage being played, and then the player getting involved again. In the case of the offside offence, it's almost like it's coming to fruition, and the offence has occurred at that point.

The biggest issue here (and let's be honest) is that most ARs are still stuck with their old habits of STOPPING at the point of potential offence and not following the play until the PIOP actually becomes involved. As soon as that stops, then it really becomes a no-brainer.

Remember that prior to the re-write, the location of the kick was supposed to be where the PIOP was located when the last touch by a teammate occurred. So... if that player finally interfered with play/opponent/etc near the PA, but was originally in that offside position near the halfway line, strictly speaking, the AR needed to raise the flag at the point of offence, run up the touchline to the original position of the player and THEN indicate the location of kick...

Much easier now -- when the flag goes up, point to location, and hey... the location of the kick is almost always where the ball is (was) at the time of the flag going up.

 

[Viking]

Thanks for all the previous answers.

Just to get my thinking right, it makes sense to me for the AR to actually flag from the 2nd last defender because that is where the AR should be spending most of his time, but it also makes sense for the AR to then run towards the place where the offside offence occurred to ensure the kick takes place from the correct position according to the LOTG. This latter run never happens and the IDFK takes place from the 2nd last defender, so I'm wondering what advice AR are given from either the FA or their ref on the day?

 

[santa sangria]

Often now because of wait and see, the flag goes up somewhere between ball and attacking player or close to attacking player away from second defender.

Few offside flags go up horizontal to the point of becoming active it seems.

I would also like to know what top flight ARs are trained to do. My guess is that they are instructed only to move the IDFK to the correct position if there’s like 40 yards difference... interested though...

 

[JH]

Often now because of wait and see, the flag goes up somewhere between ball and attacking player or close to attacking player away from second defender.

Few offside flags go up horizontal to the point of becoming active it seems.

I would also like to know what top flight ARs are trained to do. My guess is that they are instructed only to move the IDFK to the correct position if there’s like 40 yards difference... interested though...

I've never thought it a problem. Just take the IDFK from wherever I was standing when I decided a player became active.

 

[spuddy1878]

Falls into the "does it really matter" category. At top levels the team taking the free kick normally just want to put the ball down and play sideways (unless they are Cardiff ..!), so if the referee was fussy about ball placement it would just unnecessarily slow the game down.

But then they can bring a free kick back as the ball might have been moving ever so slightly (one law that needs changing)

 

[one]

This will generally not be an issue if ARs continues their movement with second last defender or ball while doing the wait and see which is the correct thing to do.

Stopping in your tracks while doing the wait and see has many problems, one of which is the location of the restart. It also means you are behind play if PIOP does not interfere. Additionally it sends a signal to said player that he should stop his chase (indirectly helps him).