A&H

not even minimum wage!

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
I did a friendly game last week (i know it was my choice) as i wasn't busy at work. I spent 3 hours on the game and drove 20 miles each way.

By the time i took my costs out i ended up with £7 per hour. Minimum wage (age 21+) is currently £8.21 an hour.

The question is what are we worth an hour? I have a friend who does keep fit classes and she charges £22 an hour.

In my business i know the exact "going rate" and can charge accordingly.
 
The Referee Store
I did a friendly game last week (i know it was my choice) as i wasn't busy at work. I spent 3 hours on the game and drove 20 miles each way.

By the time i took my costs out i ended up with £7 per hour. Minimum wage (age 21+) is currently £8.21 an hour.

The question is what are we worth an hour? I have a friend who does keep fit classes and she charges £22 an hour.

In my business i know the exact "going rate" and can charge accordingly.
You're worth a match fee based on the competitions that you choose to referee in.

Whether that be a fixed fee, or a fee plus mileage depends on the competition.
 
Similar to the other thread, if you are refereeing for money you aren't going to get rich. Clubs are folding all over the pace as it is, putting in a minimum "wage" would just make it worse.

And it isn't just refereeing, feel for us observers. I've just spent three hours completing reports from yesterday's supply league game. Travel was 90 minutes round trip, and almost 4 hours at the ground. That's 8.5 hours for the grand all inclusive fee of £30, or £3.50 per hour. But I don't do it for the money, I do it because I enjoy it and take pleasure from (hopefully) making referees better and spending time with the people at the clubs who give up their time completely free of charge. The same as I spend many hours every week completely voluntarily working on referee development and league business, no one is forcing me to just as no one is forcing you to go out and referee.
 
Similar to the other thread, if you are refereeing for money you aren't going to get rich. Clubs are folding all over the pace as it is, putting in a minimum "wage" would just make it worse.

And it isn't just refereeing, feel for us observers.

That's 8.5 hours for the grand all inclusive fee of £30, or £3.50 per hour..

Now I know I am underpaid. Our L4 observation fees, which are on a step 7 league (so no shelter or stands...) are £27.50 up from £25 last season. :smoke:
 
The question is what are we worth an hour? I have a friend who does keep fit classes and she charges £22 an hour.

There's an idea here.

Start training to do fitness classes, you'll make a mint and you'll be fit for refereeing on the days you take off. I'm starting to think of going down that route, I mean, if you're going up the ladder you're expected to do the fitness stuff anyway, so may as well get educated and work in that area?
 
Similar to the other thread, if you are refereeing for money you aren't going to get rich. Clubs are folding all over the pace as it is, putting in a minimum "wage" would just make it worse.

And it isn't just refereeing, feel for us observers. I've just spent three hours completing reports from yesterday's supply league game. Travel was 90 minutes round trip, and almost 4 hours at the ground. That's 8.5 hours for the grand all inclusive fee of £30, or £3.50 per hour. But I don't do it for the money, I do it because I enjoy it and take pleasure from (hopefully) making referees better and spending time with the people at the clubs who give up their time completely free of charge. The same as I spend many hours every week completely voluntarily working on referee development and league business, no one is forcing me to just as no one is forcing you to go out and referee.
You seem to be saying "if you don't like it, tough". Surely a national minimum would make it fair countrywide? Your own scenario is also totally ridiculous.

The FA have large pots of money that don't appear to trickle down. Just saying "that's the way it is" is not good enough. Change is needed i think.
 
You seem to be saying "if you don't like it, tough". Surely a national minimum would make it fair countrywide? Your own scenario is also totally ridiculous.

The FA have large pots of money that don't appear to trickle down. Just saying "that's the way it is" is not good enough. Change is needed i think.

Yes, in effect that is what I am saying. It's a hobby and paid accordingly, comparing it to minimum wage and employment rights is just nonsense. And even if you do compare it to employment, how many people are paid for the time and cost for them to travel to work? I'm certainly not, and very few are I suspect. Don't know the fee was for your game, but in reality that fee was for 90 minutes actual "work", or perhaps two hours if you get there 15 minutes or so before kick off. I'd guess the fee was around £30, so that's £15 per hour and a hell of a lot of people would bite your arm off for that.

If you are comparing to employment and minimum wage, let me ask you this. Do you pay tax on it, as presumably you have another job and earn more than £12,500 in that, meaning that any additional employment income is taxable?

As an aside, I certainly wish I'd known about refereeing when I was a student. Spending 6 hours a week refereeing three games for £90 would have been much more preferably to slogging my @rse off in pubs for double the number of hours hours (fee and wage based on today's rates rather than the bygone days when I was a student before some smart @rse points this out ... :))
 
You seem to be saying "if you don't like it, tough". Surely a national minimum would make it fair countrywide? Your own scenario is also totally ridiculous.

The FA have large pots of money that don't appear to trickle down. Just saying "that's the way it is" is not good enough. Change is needed i think.

You can argue that you are only actually working for 90 minutes, maybe at a push 2 hours, when you consider things like pre and post game admin. Warm up time, etc isn’t included as it’s your choice whether you do it or not.
Likewise, travel time to and from the venue is not included.
You’ve started a couple of posts that are specifically money related, reality is, if it's only money you are looking for, then this is not the thing to do. If you're looking for a challenge, great camaraderie and the ability to be part of games at grounds that you could not dream of playing at as a player, then use that as your considerations.
 
I did a friendly game last week (i know it was my choice) as i wasn't busy at work. I spent 3 hours on the game and drove 20 miles each way.

By the time i took my costs out i ended up with £7 per hour. Minimum wage (age 21+) is currently £8.21 an hour.

The question is what are we worth an hour? I have a friend who does keep fit classes and she charges £22 an hour.

In my business i know the exact "going rate" and can charge accordingly.
I do hope you include this on your next tax return! Its not free money you know!! ;)
 
Yes, in effect that is what I am saying. It's a hobby and paid accordingly, comparing it to minimum wage and employment rights is just nonsense. And even if you do compare it to employment, how many people are paid for the time and cost for them to travel to work? I'm certainly not, and very few are I suspect. Don't know the fee was for your game, but in reality that fee was for 90 minutes actual "work", or perhaps two hours if you get there 15 minutes or so before kick off. I'd guess the fee was around £30, so that's £15 per hour and a hell of a lot of people would bite your arm off for that.

If you are comparing to employment and minimum wage, let me ask you this. Do you pay tax on it, as presumably you have another job and earn more than £12,500 in that, meaning that any additional employment income is taxable?

As an aside, I certainly wish I'd known about refereeing when I was a student. Spending 6 hours a week refereeing three games for £90 would have been much more preferably to slogging my @rse off in pubs for double the number of hours hours (fee and wage based on today's rates rather than the bygone days when I was a student before some smart @rse points this out ... :))
According to HMRC the first £1000 is tax free anyway if it is a "hobby".

HMRC say the first £1000 does not count towards tax.

I cannot see leagues being ok with refs turning up 2 minutes before kick-off so the 30 minutes before kick-off cannot be ignored as non-game time.

My friend who does the keep fit only does this 3 hours per week but it's a good earner for £66. They drive 15 minutes each way and have 5 minutes to set up too. When i told them i get £7 an hour they laughed.

Are they taking part in a hobby or are they counted as something else?

I know we are not worth £22 an hour but we must be worth around £10-12 pounds per hour?

Like i said the FA have a lot to answer for.
 
You can argue that you are only actually working for 90 minutes, maybe at a push 2 hours, when you consider things like pre and post game admin. Warm up time, etc isn’t included as it’s your choice whether you do it or not.
Likewise, travel time to and from the venue is not included.
You’ve started a couple of posts that are specifically money related, reality is, if it's only money you are looking for, then this is not the thing to do. If you're looking for a challenge, great camaraderie and the ability to be part of games at grounds that you could not dream of playing at as a player, then use that as your considerations.
The point i am making is refs should be "fairly compensated" and £7 an hour is nowhere near.
 
IF we were self-employed:

In April last year, HMRC introduced a new allowance to cover “self-starters” with small, hobby-based businesses. The allowance means that the first £1,000 you earn (gross, before expenses) is tax free. You don't have to pay anything on this income or even report it.
 
Interesting to read how the referees on £1000's want to lecture the 99.9% of park referees.

I've met Bobby and he isn't on £1000s. He has gone to Norway and is quite happy to work his way up from lower levels despite the fact that he was PGMOL1 and FIFA whilst in the UK, so his match fees will be low.
 
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