The Ref Stop

Not allowing a substitution

O

Ori

Well-Known Member
So I did something yesterday which had me questioning myself.

We are in added time (u16 girls cup match).
I’m about to blow the whistle. Probably in 5-10 seconds when the home team have a throw in, the away manager shouts “ref!!! Sub!!”
I turn him away, allow the throw and instantly blow for full time. (Goes to penalties)
The manager starts shouting at me saying that I should have allowed the sub and it’s not up to me to decide not to allow it.

I said to him that it’s totally up to me when to allow a substitution and I was about to blow and end of. Told him to walk away before I reach for a card.

Was I wrong in law?
 
The Ref Stop
Technically you’re fine to do as you did as any substitutions basically need your approval.

However, this is all about game management. If a game is going to go to penalties, you need to be a bit more switched on to the possibility of things like this happening. It’s not particularly rare that a team will make a last second substitution before they go to penalties- whether that be a taker or a goalkeeper.

I was taught in situations like this to make the managers or captains aware that there is X amount of minutes left in the game, and only players on field at the end of the game can participate. This should be enough warning for them to make the change in good time.

Also, as you get to those latter stages, have a look and see if it looks like any players are getting ready to come on. This can help you maybe manage their introduction to the game.
 
Good advice there.

I will caveat and say that I added 3 mins of added time and told him as such when he asked me 5 minutes before. He then waited until 10 seconds from the end to request the sub.

They won the shoot out ;)
 
Not wrong in law per se, but not advisable. Unless you have a very good reason not to allow the sub, for example he isn't ready to come on, you will just be causing unnecessary problems for yourself. Best case you're going to get clobbered on your mark, worst case it is going to generate a complaint to the league.
 
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Ori said:
Good advice there.

I will caveat and say that I added 3 mins of added time and told him as such when he asked me 5 minutes before. He then waited until 10 seconds from the end to request the sub.

They won the shoot out ;)
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Yeh, just don't invite (big) problems onto yourself. You stand to gain nothing in this situation but you could lose a lot
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, just don't invite (big) problems onto yourself. You stand to gain nothing in this situation but you could lose a lot
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I’ll be honest and say that I didn’t even think about subs for penalty shoot out.
In a normal match it makes no difference.
He still shouldn’t have left it until 5-10 seconds to go. What if the ball hadn’t gone out of play?

Thanks for advice. We learn and move on.
 
Ori said:
I’ll be honest and say that I didn’t even think about subs for penalty shoot out.
In a normal match it makes no difference.
He still shouldn’t have left it until 5-10 seconds to go. What if the ball hadn’t gone out of play?

Thanks for advice. We learn and move on.
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If the ball doesn’t go out out play, then it’s their fault entirely. If you get your scenario, it’s not necessarily your fault, but it gives them an excuse to make it your fault
 
Runner Ref said:
If the ball doesn’t go out out play, then it’s their fault entirely. If you get your scenario, it’s not necessarily your fault, but it gives them an excuse to make it your fault
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100% that. We all know that players and managers will seize on any opportunity to defect blame away from themselves onto the referee, don't hand them that opportunity on a plate.
 
Where in the Laws do you find discretion to refuse a sub? I don’t believe the R has that discretion where the request for a sub is proper. (But the manager here is just looking for a good excuse to whine, as it clearly made not a whit of difference to anything.)
 
socal lurker said:
Where in the Laws do you find discretion to refuse a sub? I don’t believe the R has that discretion where the request for a sub is proper. (But the manager here is just looking for a good excuse to whine, as it clearly made not a whit of difference to anything.)
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It’s up to the ref to decide when to stop play and allow a sub.
Happens all the time.
Ball goes out of play and team has advantage of taking a quick throw and at that point the opposition manager shouts ref sub!

Without a 4th official to handle subs, it’s completely up to the ref to stop play and allow the subs.
 
Ori said:
It’s up to the ref to decide when to stop play and allow a sub.
Happens all the time.
Ball goes out of play and team has advantage of taking a quick throw and at that point the opposition manager shouts ref sub!

Without a 4th official to handle subs, it’s completely up to the ref to stop play and allow the subs.
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That isn't really the case. If the substitute is ready there isn't anything in law that supports you stopping them making it. Has the referee been informed? Yes. Is the player coming on ready and in the correct kit? Yes. In which case you really don't have any grounds in law to not allow the change to take place.
 
Why not just blow the whistle for time when the ball went out for a throw? Even at the point of them asking, if your reasoning is your about to blow, then just blow, saves a whole world of pain
 
Was it rolling substitutions? If so, I don't see any reason not to allow it to happen and then add 30 seconds on.
 
Gamespoiler said:
Why not just blow the whistle for time when the ball went out for a throw? Even at the point of them asking, if your reasoning is your about to blow, then just blow, saves a whole world of pain
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Why would you, if time wasn't up?

Lesson learned here (hopefully) in game management in an easily-avoided situation.
 
Ori said:
So I did something yesterday which had me questioning myself.

We are in added time (u16 girls cup match).
I’m about to blow the whistle. Probably in 5-10 seconds when the home team have a throw in, the away manager shouts “ref!!! Sub!!”
I turn him away, allow the throw and instantly blow for full time. (Goes to penalties)
The manager starts shouting at me saying that I should have allowed the sub and it’s not up to me to decide not to allow it.

I said to him that it’s totally up to me when to allow a substitution and I was about to blow and end of. Told him to walk away before I reach for a card.

Was I wrong in law?
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Issue you may have is it’s a grey area if roll on subs you could have a issue whereby leauge orders grounds for a replay had this happen when my brother was playing leauge made the whole tie be replayed despite them being 3-1 up at the time.
 
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