No ref, no game? (well, not a neutral one anyway!) A referee shortage?

[Andrew.Rainsbury]

Evening fellow lovers of the dark art,
just wondering if everyone else is feeling it (?)...
I run a group on Facebook that is for managers to post fixtures for tournaments and friendlies in Kent. But since the start of GRF football season - We have been inundated with club posts for referees, tonight i authorised 10 posts - for next sundays fixtures!
Now... our group caters for the ref that is at a loose end, by letting clubs post their fixtures where a referee has let them down (aka cried off ).
I'm guessing the league secretary(s) are appointing where they can, but there is a severe shortage it would seem on Sundays.
Managers are now quipping "are there actually any referees in this group"
And seem genuinely shocked when i posted the following:

Group Members: I thought I’d explain to you all the probable reason behind why there are not an avalanche of Referees responding to Club posts;
Some of you may not know the process of a Qualified Referee - under FA Regulations; we must advise our availability to local leagues (that we signed up to in pre-season). Failure to ‘close off dates’ is a chargeable offence with potential suspension from our FA.
Therefore – many referees will already be committed to fixtures weeks in advance.
On top of this we all receive emails from our RDO for fixtures without cover.
However, it is not pointless to post your request on this page…
If I use myself as an example; I am signed up to XXXX – but have closed off all my dates, due to parental commitments (academy football & XXXX parental duties).
However, there are dates that I can referee and will help where I can; fixture and time dependent – it is possible to cover 3 Sunday matches as I have done in the past!
And there are many other Referees on here (with similar situations) who will take games on here.
Coupled with this, Grassroots Football across the country hasn’t done itself any favours over the years with Referee abuse widely reported up and down the country.

My long winded question being... are clubs now reaping what they sowed in GRF football; with "no ref, no game" becoming more and more a reality?

 

[RobOda]

I guess so? It seems most of the younger talent get promoted and moved on to the higher tier games, leaving pretty much trainees and retirees for the grass-roots level.

That's only my very limited experience locally though - All the games I've attended tend to be one of the two categories above! There's a lot of silver hair round my way, and on my own head unfortunately!

I know there's a critical shortage for youth and girls games - Sunday games in particular. I think a lot of people don't want to commit to Saturday-Sunday - I know I'm not keen on it myself, but then again, we had a new referee's officer for a county-wide Sunday youth league and the response from interested referees was so high that we are actually going without assigned games! That suggests to me that maybe there is an interest from some referees but officers aren't tapping into it, or making them aware of the opportunity for these fixtures?

Case in point - I'm only aware that I can sign up to do women's football because I specifically enquired as to the possibility of signing up. No one's actually reached out to me about it etc.

But back to what you say, yes I think there is a shortage, always has been. The reserve divisions locally just have to go without unfortunately.

 

[GraemeS]

I agree with some of what Rob says - as someone who is going for promotion, it's really not in my best interests to do Sunday football. It doesn't count towards my quota of matches and there's every chance I'll roll my ankle again or similar, which would derail my entire promotion season. By saying those matches don't count, the CFA have actively disincentivised me towards doing Sunday football.

Couple that with the fact that it puts a stopper to doing anything on Saturday night, I can see why Saturday football would still do OK where Sunday league would struggle.

 

[xPositor]

@Andrew.Rainsbury I'm on that Facebook group, and saw your post. IIRC I only see youth games needing to get cover. My local league increased the match fees to attract more referees - at the request of and with the full support of the clubs - and with a lot more hard work from the ref sec more games get covered (e.g. working with clubs to that KO times at a single club can be staggered across the age groups, so that one referee can perhaps do two or three consecutive games). Its starting to work, but I'd also like to see other league incentives, e.g. cover say 25 games for the league in a season, and the league will supply you with new kit for the following season.

 

[Kes]

Currently, many local leagues are experiencing difficulties finding a referee for their matches due to many of them being "pulled" to act as assistants for FA Cup and Vase games. I've had to "cry off" my last 3 local Saturday appointments for that very reason and I know of quite a few others who have as well.
I'm guessing everything should return to normal next month when these FA fixtures start appointing Level 4's and above for lines. (?)

 

[Cheshire Ref]

I have to say this is a worrying and all too common trend. Since the middle of last season i have been ref sec of my local Sunday league and i cannot tell you how difficult it is to get referee's. Last season i lost count of how many games were cancelled and last Sunday had to inform two teams that there game was off. I have worked so hard over the closed season to recruit new referees (5) and bring some of the former referees back (4) but this is still not enough.

In the past 3 seasons we have gone from 49 active referees to 23, 9 of those 23 are over 60 (not a negative at all by the way as they are the best ref's i have), 3 of those 23 are currently giving me 1 Sunday in 4 which leaves me 20. I appoint 18 games per week, an injury, a closed date, a District or County cup appointment and i am knackered.

Referee's just don't fancy it anymore, they don't want the hassle of having to try and control 22 Sunday morning players. We have increased our referee fee's, we have tightened our discipline, we are recruiting all the time but i worry about the future, i just cant see where the new ref's are going to come from.

We are also not the only ones, i regularly speak to the sec of one of our junior leagues and he currently runs at 53% coverage and has to use parents or coaches. Whilst this can work for him, a parent can ref an U9 game although not ideal. It is out of the question for a non qualified referee to take charge of Sunday league adult game.

 

[Big Cat]

I have to say this is a worrying and all too common trend. Since the middle of last season i have been ref sec of my local Sunday league and i cannot tell you how difficult it is to get referee's. Last season i lost count of how many games were cancelled and last Sunday had to inform two teams that there game was off. I have worked so hard over the closed season to recruit new referees (5) and bring some of the former referees back (4) but this is still not enough.

In the past 3 seasons we have gone from 49 active referees to 23, 9 of those 23 are over 60 (not a negative at all by the way as they are the best ref's i have), 3 of those 23 are currently giving me 1 Sunday in 4 which leaves me 20. I appoint 18 games per week, an injury, a closed date, a District or County cup appointment and i am knackered.

Referee's just don't fancy it anymore, they don't want the hassle of having to try and control 22 Sunday morning players. We have increased our referee fee's, we have tightened our discipline, we are recruiting all the time but i worry about the future, i just cant see where the new ref's are going to come from.

We are also not the only ones, i regularly speak to the sec of one of our junior leagues and he currently runs at 53% coverage and has to use parents or coaches. Whilst this can work for him, a parent can ref an U9 game although not ideal. It is out of the question for a non qualified referee to take charge of Sunday league adult game.

Interesting insight, but I don't think this is a new problem. The Sunday League in which I used to occasionally play, had 50% coverage at best. I refereed umpteen games when not qualified, as did team mates when injured. In the Home Counties, I'd say coverage at Grass Roots for Open Age has never been better. This is because participation is massively down and leagues have merged as a consequence. A newly qualified referee would struggle to get any game on a Saturday down here, unless going down the AFA path. Sunday Leagues have close to full coverage now, but i believe the games are not cancelled if the referee pulls out. Youth Football.... 20 or 30% coverage at best, but that's because it's a boom industry. The vast majority of kids give the game up by 16 however

 

[Tino Best]

On the Saturday OA I ref in there was not a single new ref on that league for the new season and last year they only managed full coverage by not always having NARs on the senior division. At Youth the county FA appoints for all games. A friend of mine at the FA was really happy as during the year they had put about 70 odd refs through the course and said we should have full coverage during the season. Last week I received 2 emails asking me to ref, already had 1 this week as a ref has pulled out. Its county cup weekend so refs are being pulled off youth games so the emails will start coming around Thursday. We get a list of all apointments and both weeks there have been blank spaces. How many refs are doing this just for their D of E?

 

[Ben448844]

I've mentioned this on here before but there were 50 on my course last year, under 16s made up 47 of the group. I struggled to get any qualification games in the local youth league id been assigned to and had to travel 70 miles to do the welfare course as the county is chosen didn't have one planned for months. I moved counties and get 2-3 games every week now but it was blatantly obvious that the overwhelming majority of the attendees on the refs course were DoE or were their because they'd got funding through the clubs. They showed no interest in listening to the course tutors, to the point where us 3 adults on the course had to shut them up. The exam was a group exercise and I'm pretty confident that all but 2 in our group would've failed because the rest had no idea as they hadn't listened to anything. Once the football started in the practical sessions, you would've thought it was a cup final to alot of the attendees, the refereeing they had to do just got in the way!!

Shame and I'm sure others have a much more positive experience. I'd be amazed if 5 of the 50 on that course are still involved now. I know one of the other 2 adults packed it in after 6 months.

 

[Big Cat]

I've mentioned this on here before but there were 50 on my course last year, under 16s made up 47 of the group. I struggled to get any qualification games in the local youth league id been assigned to and had to travel 70 miles to do the welfare course as the county is chosen didn't have one planned for months. I moved counties and get 2-3 games every week now but it was blatantly obvious that the overwhelming majority of the attendees on the refs course were DoE or were their because they'd got funding through the clubs. They showed no interest in listening to the course tutors, to the point where us 3 adults on the course had to shut them up. The exam was a group exercise and I'm pretty confident that all but 2 in our group would've failed because the rest had no idea as they hadn't listened to anything. Once the football started in the practical sessions, you would've thought it was a cup final to alot of the attendees, the refereeing they had to do just got in the way!!

Shame and I'm sure others have a much more positive experience. I'd be amazed if 5 of the 50 on that course are still involved now. I know one of the other 2 adults packed it in after 6 months.

My experience was similar, although not quite as bad. The main problem I had was finding a Referee Secretary who would bother to return my emails etc.
I found getting 5 appointments as a trainee so arduous, that many would-be refs must drop out at that stage. With talk of Sunday League games being cancelled, I think an adult who has done the course and passed the test, should immediately qualify. It's difficult to justify the 'prestige' of L7 qualification, when there are games everywhere with no cover

 

[Ben448844]

My experience was similar, although not quite as bad. The main problem I had was finding a Referee Secretary who would bother to return my emails etc.
I found getting 5 appointments as a trainee so arduous, that many would-be refs must drop out at that stage. With talk of Sunday League games being cancelled, I think an adult who has done the course and passed the test, should immediately qualify. It's difficult to justify the 'prestige' of L7 qualification, when there are games everywhere with no cover

I'd previously qualified 18 years earlier as a 15 year old (it was level 3 back then, not 7 as it is now). I did a season of Saturday morning youth games and reffed 5-6 games a year for my much younger brothers team when I wasn't playing myself until they disbanded at u18 level. Probably had 40 Sunday league games under my belt as I packed Sunday morning football up at 30 to concentrate on Saturdays so I was a veteran in level 7 terms lol. I did explain this when I was struggling to get level 7 qualification games but was told it have to do the qualifying matches anyway. Understandable as I couldn't prove I'd done all them games but frustrating when I had all that behind me but was struggling to get qualification games in a local youth league. Along with the cost of a couple of Nike kits, welfare course and whistles, cards rtf, I reckon it cost me £280 to start up as a ref. Not an issue to me fortunately but to a young ref I'm sure it would be

 

[Big Cat]

I'd previously qualified 18 years earlier as a 15 year old (it was level 3 back then, not 7 as it is now). I did a season of Saturday morning youth games and reffed 5-6 games a year for my much younger brothers team when I wasn't playing myself until they disbanded at u18 level. Probably had 40 Sunday league games under my belt as I packed Sunday morning football up at 30 to concentrate on Saturdays so I was a veteran in level 7 terms lol. I did explain this when I was struggling to get level 7 qualification games but was told it have to do the qualifying matches anyway. Understandable as I couldn't prove I'd done all them games but frustrating when I had all that behind me but was struggling to get qualification games in a local youth league. Along with the cost of a couple of Nike kits, welfare course and whistles, cards rtf, I reckon it cost me £280 to start up as a ref. Not an issue to me fortunately but to a young ref I'm sure it would be

It's quite a big commitment really. I had to take two days off work, spend 3 days on a pitch with kids acting the fool; and like you say £300 or thereabouts upfront. Then there's the folk who volunteer to run the courses. You have to really want to be a referee to get past these hurdles. Stumbling across the enjoyment of refereeing by chance is really quite unlikely. Somewhat like you I was playing Saturdays and used to cover my local pub team's games on Sundays. Bizarrely, I got much less stick back then doing those games when I wasn't qualified. The badge and black kit seems to turn us into Traffic Wardens, in the player's mindseye

 

[Ben448844]

Let's be honest, there's a large section of (particularly amateur) teams who just have no respect for the referee. Some of the teams I've played for towards the end of my playing career treated the ref with utter contempt. I've always found it odd that mistakes from players are accepted but mistakes from referees are not. It's amazing when you think about it the standards that are expected from refs at the bottom level a of football, despite the dreadful standard of many of the players that are playing at that level! Something I often reminded my team mates off and say to players who are a bit too lippy now I'm reffing, "we're all at the same level here".

To keep this on topic, I believe there's a referee shortage because it's clear that there's no respect for referees in many areas of the game.

 

[zarathustra]

I think a large part of the problem is that while CFAs are making great headway in recruiting new referees (to replace those who stop) the majority are on the younger side.

How many of these new young referees are whisked away to referee academies or development groups where they are given games, so they don’t venture out into the world of Sunday morning football?

Another issue is the attitude of some players/teams, if teams want to act belters then they have to expect that people would rather have a lie in on Sunday’s, rather than waste their time getting abused.

 

[lincs22]

I think a large part of the problem is that while CFAs are making great headway in recruiting new referees (to replace those who stop) the majority are on the younger side.

Completely true, the retention figures for new referees in OA is horrible. They do there first few games, receive abuse and realise that there are better ways of spending a Saturday afternoon.

How many of these new young referees are whisked away to referee academies or development groups where they are given games, so they don’t venture out into the world of Sunday morning football?

Yes, the chosen few within CORE are taken for the "pretty" academy games, where the clubs throw out trouble makers. They tend to be younger referee which would be doing junior football, not Sunday morning matches

Another issue is the attitude of some players/teams, if teams want to act belters then they have to expect that people would rather have a lie in on Sunday’s, rather than waste their time getting abused.

Additionally. the quality of the Sunday morning football has suffered in the last 10 years. Whereas a good team had Contrib players playing with their mates, now it is people who has been on the p*55 on a Saturday night, thinking they are Messi and the referee should be Howard Webb standard!

More football is being played with ensuring referees are available. It is over £100 to qualify and as @Brian Hamilton has said in the past, there are youngster funded though various grants to do this to improve their CV's. Waste of effort by the CFA's.

 

[markref]

Let's be honest, there's a large section of (particularly amateur) teams who just have no respect for the referee. Some of the teams I've played for towards the end of my playing career treated the ref with utter contempt. I've always found it odd that mistakes from players are accepted but mistakes from referees are not. It's amazing when you think about it the standards that are expected from refs at the bottom level a of football, despite the dreadful standard of many of the players that are playing at that level! Something I often reminded my team mates off and say to players who are a bit too lippy now I'm reffing, "we're all at the same level here".

To keep this on topic, I believe there's a referee shortage because it's clear that there's no respect for referees in many areas of the game.

It doesn't even need the referee to have made a mistake. It just needs the player to disagree with the decision for it to start. The trouble is, the referees who are on the receiving end of a lot of this have the tools to deal with it but often don't have the experience, or else lose the will to deal with it. In my experience they are either very new, or else very experienced.

Social media has a lot to answer for in this case. People get used to making often really hurtful comments quickly to something they don't like. They then respond similarly when someone does something, because they don't see a difference between online and face-to-face.

Our Sunday league started on the 2nd September. One of the games had no Referee, and in another one the appointed Ref called off on the morning so that game was also uncovered. The home team were straight on the league's Facebook page, rubbishing the Referee and the League, making totally disgraceful comments about the running of the League. The players responsible have been called to a disciplinary meeting next month, to which they responded "Why wait? Bring it on!" They have no respect for anyone, so why are they going to respect a Referee?

I had a friendly a few weeks ago and called a player offside. He responded by shouting "F**k off, Ref!" I called him to me to send him off, and he wouldn't stop talking loudly about what an awful decision it was, even though he was the only player in the half apart from the goalkeeper, so I said "be quiet, please. I'm trying to talk" His response was, "If you want me to show you respect then you have to show it to me!" He didn't understand that the only reason we were having any conversation was that he had no respect for me, and I was in no way disrespectful to him.
The trouble is, he obviously gets away with it most of the time, so it's a shock when he gets to miss games when he doesn't.

 

[zarathustra]

More football is being played with ensuring referees are available. It is over £100 to qualify and as @Brian Hamilton has said in the past, there are youngster funded though various grants to do this to improve their CV's. Waste of effort by the CFA's.

When I qualified we had to do a get into refereeing session before we could sign up for the actual course.

The RDO asked who was doing it for their Duke of Edinburgh Award and a good 50% put their hands up.

My county does, or did, offer a separate course for those doing DofE, so they didn’t lose places on the “full” course to people who had not intention of continuing

 

[bester]

What were the retention rates when the RAs ran courses? Allow RAs to bid for courses but make it compulsory to have an FA qualified tutor.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Just had a similar discussion on a local forum. Checked out some numbers and found that of 650 L5-7 we had in Oct, we only have 550 now. A handful have gone up but that still means we have lost around 95 or 15% of those levels.