The Ref Stop

NFFC vs BHO

F

Fin

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Hi guys,

What do you all think of the kerfuffle towards the end of the game regarding the MGW second yellow and the subsequent nuno and fabian reds?
I think Jones backed himself into a corner signalling that MGW got the ball to the Brighton players and then didnt attempt to book MGW until 30 seconds later. I cant fathom why he changed his mind on this situation after he clearly already decided on no sanction for MGW.

PS, why would a professional referee make such a rookie mistake such as using "he got the ball" as the reasoning for no sanction?
 
The Ref Stop
Fin said:
Hi guys,

What do you all think of the kerfuffle towards the end of the game regarding the MGW second yellow and the subsequent nuno and fabian reds?
I think Jones backed himself into a corner signalling that MGW got the ball to the Brighton players and then didnt attempt to book MGW until 30 seconds later. I cant fathom why he changed his mind on this situation after he clearly already decided on no sanction for MGW.

PS, why would a professional referee make such a rookie mistake such as using "he got the ball" as the reasoning for no sanction?
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They all point at the ball
Which I'd take pelters for when observed. One of many things the elite refs do that we're discouraged from copying. It's so stupid. In any other walk of life we'd want to copy the 'best in the business'. I say we don't point the ball at any level for obvious reasons. So it's them that's setting a very poor example. It's intended to communicate with spectators, but it's actually communicating completely the wrong message. Simple

Consensus is that AT acting as 4th game Jones advice over Comms
The game does not tolerate signs of Match Officials in disagreement with one another, even when it's just a case of one having a better view than tother
 
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Big Cat said:
They all point at the ball
Which I'd take pelters for when observed. Mad innit?
Consensus is that AT acting as 4th game Jones advice over Comms
The game does not tolerate any sign of Match Officials in disagreement with one another, even when it's just a case of one having a better view than tother
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Truly, its insane how many SG1 officials get away with decisions that if we, lower down the pyramid, made, we would get slaughtered for.
The thing is with that is that Jones had already made his decision that it wasnt a yellow otherwise he would have brought it straight out when he moved towards the location of the foul but he passed MGW with no comment and then changed his mind.
Why is AT rerefereeing the game from 4th when RJ had already made his mind up?
 
Maybe Rob Jones will be disappointed here with his positioning & then his ‘got the ball’ gesture, I thought best practice was not to use.

Then gives a throw in, tells Brighton player he played the ball then someone in his ear to produce a second yellow, not a good look or process, regardless of whether he got to the right decision in the end.

& three Reds from AT who was trying to keep a low profile as 4th Official 😂

From 2:30

 
Why was the Brighton manager sent off? I know one of his coaches went onto the FOP but it seems harsh too me. Also this rule that a manager getting a red card means he is unable to talk to the press after the game, I'm not sure what the intention is behind that but I can't imagine Sky would be all that impressed that they can't speak to the managers and ask for their thoughts because of this bizarre rule in my view.
 
Really wasn't a great 90 minutes for Rob Jones, as others have said, not sure how the elite referees are "allowed" or "get away" with all the things we are told not to do day one at ref school.

He's made the decision that MGW has won the ball despite being a good 30-40 yards away ("be credible in your decisions" still rings in my ears) and then backs it up with the "won the ball" signal, which then fits the narrative that so many players and fans have that "winning the ball" is all that matters.

For what it's worth I had the challenge down as a red, not sure how it didn't tick this

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Not in the highlights but I thought the Brighton defender was also a contender for SFP for a challenge on the Forest attacker right at the end of the game.
 
Paul_10 said:
Why was the Brighton manager sent off? I know one of his coaches went onto the FOP but it seems harsh too me. Also this rule that a manager getting a red card means he is unable to talk to the press after the game, I'm not sure what the intention is behind that but I can't imagine Sky would be all that impressed that they can't speak to the managers and ask for their thoughts because of this bizarre rule in my view.
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Whilst the red cards for managers were probably both justified, it felt like a total loss of control by Jones at this point and the only way to try and get it back was to flash the cards.
 
Fin said:
Why is AT rerefereeing the game from 4th when RJ had already made his mind up?
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If you reach a level where comms are used you will discover just how active a role the 4th official takes. It's not immediately obvious because they don't have a flag or a whistle but the 4th official offers support just as any of the other assistants when they are in a position to do so.
Where this happens AT is the best placed match official and offers credible advice to arrive at what is the correct decision and ensure the correct sanctions are applied.
 
JamesL said:
If you reach a level where comms are used you will discover just how active a role the 4th official takes. It's not immediately obvious because they don't have a flag or a whistle but the 4th official offers support just as any of the other assistants when they are in a position to do so.
Where this happens AT is the best placed match official and offers credible advice to arrive at what is the correct decision and ensure the correct sanctions are applied.
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Which is why with Comms, you hold your decision, take in via Comms others views AR & 4O.

For over 20 seconds, signalled throw in, gestured he got the ball, dismissed the Brighton players appeals for a second yellow.

Then took advise from 4O. Should have said sorry AT too late I’m committed to a throw in & cant give a second yellow.

Hence chaos, three red cards.
 
JamesL said:
If you reach a level where comms are used you will discover just how active a role the 4th official takes. It's not immediately obvious because they don't have a flag or a whistle but the 4th official offers support just as any of the other assistants when they are in a position to do so.
Where this happens AT is the best placed match official and offers credible advice to arrive at what is the correct decision and ensure the correct sanctions are applied.
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I get that but my point more was, poorly worded in fairness, is that when Rob Jones has made the decision of throw in and no sanction, why is AT then getting involved. If RJ had held off or blown for the foul, fair enough but he hadnt. He has essentially rerefereed. That mix up in communication is the lead cause of poor decisions clearly as why is RJ going back on his original decision when he had already signalled and commented. We have all committed to a decision for match control even if we were told otherwise or thought that maybe that was wrong in hindsight but these guys get away with that and this led to 3 red cards that could have been avoided.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
This seems to have really upset the football community (mainly Forest fans on Twitter / X) that a 4th official has made a decision
"
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Nitpick. The 4th didn’t make a decision. The R accepted the recommendation from the 4th and made a decision.
Fin said:
I get that but my point more was, poorly worded in fairness, is that when Rob Jones has made the decision of throw in and no sanction, why is AT then getting involved. If RJ had held off or blown for the foul, fair enough but he hadnt. He has essentially rerefereed. That mix up in communication is the lead cause of poor decisions clearly as why is RJ going back on his original decision when he had already signalled and commented. We have all committed to a decision for match control even if we were told otherwise or thought that maybe that was wrong in hindsight but these guys get away with that and this led to 3 red cards that could have been avoided.
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How about because the job of the referee team is to get things right? AG saw something RJ didn’t and told him. That’s his job.
 
socal lurker said:
Nitpick. The 4th didn’t make a decision. The R accepted the recommendation from the 4th and made a decision.

How about because the job of the referee team is to get things right? AG saw something RJ didn’t and told him. That’s his job.
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Yes it is however if an official has already made the decision and said nah no foul no sanction, why is AT getting involved then? Its the same as if im in the middle and i say no to a foul vocally and clearly but the lino flags anyway, what does that say about teamwork and match control? You have one side saying why are you making the decision and then going back on it and why is the lino flagging if you have already said no. If the main official has made the decision vocally and clearly, why is AT then offering his opinion? It should have been offered earlier prior to RJ signalling for no foul.
 
If you crossed with an AR on a KMS you'd be in big trouble. This just proves that the same holds true for crossing with the 4O
It's not a red card BTW. The challenge was indeed reckless but the officiating of it turned messy.
RJ was committed. He should have declined ATs assistance. I didnt realize RJ had been pointing at the ball, but once the ref has gotten himself in deep like that, AT should not have re-reffed it IMO. Damage limitation would have been better than 'the right decision'.
It's an intersting one anyway as not common to see an obvious cross between R and 4O. The consequences of which are unsurprising.
 
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I won't get much support on this, but the participant behaviour thing is going too far. Lord knows what the Brighton manager got dismissed for. The countless zero tolerance yellows for dissent are not proving effective. At step 5 and below, we're in a different world all together. Imagine zero tolerance Sin Bins?

All I'm saying is it's going too far. Respect is dwindling rather than what was hoped for. I think it's just having the opposite effect. Hit really bad behaviour hard. Instead, trivial dissent is being tarred with the same brush.
That's my style of reffing I guess. I'm not too interested in triviality (i quite like a degree of misbehaviour, sometimes to my cost in observations), but I'm very strict when participants cross a certain line
 
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The Ginger Ref said:
This seems to have really upset the football community (mainly Forest fans on Twitter / X) that a 4th official has made a decision

I want to scream from the rooftops "They are an officiating team"
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AT hasn’t made the decision, he has advised the Referee of what he has seen and the Referee has made the decision.
 
Big Cat said:
I won't get much support on this, but the participant behaviour thing is going too far. Lord knows what the Brighton manager got dismissed for. The countless zero tollerence yellows for dissent are not proving effective. At step 5 and below, we're in a different world all together. Imagine zero tolerance Sin Bins?

All I'm saying is it's going too. Respect is dwindling rather than what was hoped for. I think it's just having the opposite effect. Hit really bad behaviour hard. Instead, trivial dissent is being tarred with the same brush.
That's my style of reffing I guess. I'm not too interested in triviality (i quite like a degree of misbehaviour, sometimes to my cost in observations), but I'm very strict when participants cross a certain line
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And your final para is fair enough.
 
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