A&H

New York City v New York Red Bull

ladbroke8745

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Only watching the 2nd half, but wow what an absolute **** up here that led to New York Red Bulls 2nd goal in the 60th minute.

Ball goes out for a corner, assistant signals for corner. Red Bull take a THROW IN quickly and score from it and it stands!

Cue massive arguments between players and officials and between them, the ref and assistant that is, they decide to give the goal.
What total **** up.

Video will likely be after match in highlights.
 
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Both articles say the referee overruled the AR and awarded a throw-in. One even says the referee specifically stated that he told the players it was a throw-in. That being the case, I don't see the problem. The AR indicating for a corner doesn't matter, it's the referee's decision that counts.
 
Both articles say the referee overruled the AR and awarded a throw-in. One even says the referee specifically stated that he told the players it was a throw-in. That being the case, I don't see the problem. The AR indicating for a corner doesn't matter, it's the referee's decision that counts.
Hmmm, not sure I'm completely with you on that one Peter. Whilst you're right, it is entirely the referee's prerogative to overrule his AR, he needs to be aware that occasions like this are very rare. As such, to allow a quick restart in that situation is probably ill advised. I'd liken it to the various discussions we have had on here about quick FKs around the penalty area. These are fine so long as the official by his actions doesn't give the impression that it will be ceremonial. As for 'telling the players', that certainly helps but will they really hear in a packed stadium on derby day? Far, far safer to simply ensure that the throw is taken after a pause long enough for everyone to fully realise the change of heart from the officiating team.
 
In the Derby to boot. The officials are all wearing comms as would be expected at that level, so I'm surprised, but from the article it does seem like he over-rules the assistant. Given that, I'd expect that he also signalled for a throw in and because they are miked up the assistant would also change his signal.
 
Both articles say the referee overruled the AR and awarded a throw-in. One even says the referee specifically stated that he told the players it was a throw-in. That being the case, I don't see the problem. The AR indicating for a corner doesn't matter, it's the referee's decision that counts.
I suspected this to be the case. I agree with Russell it might have been better to delay the restart to effectively communicate the disagreement and correct restart.
Is there not VAR? Was it checked, or indeed, could it be checked for this scenario?
 
VAR can't check a throw-in / corner decision so even if it those in the VAR truck know an incorrect decision had been made, so that isn't an option.

As others have said, the best option here is for the referee to slow things down and to make sure the restart only happens once all players know what is happening. Trouble is though the referee might not have even known there was any confusion until it was too late.
 
From the video there were effectively 3 maybe 4 defenders who could have defended the quick throw in. They went to set up for corner kick instead as expected and by the time they realised they need to defend a throw in it was all too late. The referee could have told the entire stadium its a throw in, but the only people that mattered were the 3-4 defenders which clearly didn't know until it was too late.

This is not too dissimilar to an incident in the last world cup when Spain (or was it Portugal) took a corner kick from the opposite end of were the referee had pointed to. It took the defender facing the wrong way by surprise and they scored a goal.

There are some unfair situations you can't fix like a goal scored due to the defenders stopping on an incorrect AR flag, but on a restart like this, the officials have stuffed up as a team, they should not allow one team to gain from it if it is possible. A quick and early double peeep on the whistle and point to a different blade of grass to take the TI again would have done the trick here.
 
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Is there not VAR? Was it checked, or indeed, could it be checked for this scenario?
Even if they could there was nothing wrong. There was not offence committed in the lead up to the goal. The referee is the decision maker and he (apparently) signalled for a throw in. The throw in was taken correctly and a legal goal was scored.
 
From the video there were effectively 3 maybe 4 defenders who could have defended the quick throw in. They went to set up for corner kick instead as expected and by the time they realised they need to defend a throw in it was all too late. The referee could have told the entire stadium its a throw in, but the only people that mattered were the 3-4 defenders which clearly didn't know until it was too late.

This is not too dissimilar to an incident in the last world cup when Spain (or was it Portugal) took a corner kick from the opposite end of were the referee had pointed to. It took the defender facing the wrong way by surprise and they scored a goal.

There are some unfair situations you can't fix like a goal scored due to the defenders stopping on an incorrect AR flag, but on a restart like this, the officials have stuffed up as a team, they should not allow one team to gain from it if it is possible. A quick and early double peeep on the whistle and point to a different blade of grass to take the TI again would have done the trick here.

What I'm at a loss with is how the thrower knew it was a throw and not a corner as was signalled by the assistant.
When he went to retrieve the ball he would have seen the assistant give a corner, and if any verbal was said between thrower and assistant, it would likely to have been to confirm a corner. But when the thrower turned around, he seemingly took advantage of a quick throw in and the rest is history. This leads me to think the assistant didn't say anything as the thrower would have walked to the corner after retrieving the ball. I think the thrower chanced his luck, maybe never even saw the assistants flag, and took a throw.

I also think the referee has said he overruled the assistant to cover up for his own **** up.
Just imagine bringing it all back for a corner following a goal being scored in a local derby with home fans baying you for your blood.

Just can not fathom the thought process here.
 
Both articles say the referee overruled the AR and awarded a throw-in. One even says the referee specifically stated that he told the players it was a throw-in. That being the case, I don't see the problem. The AR indicating for a corner doesn't matter, it's the referee's decision that counts.

Just re-read the article...
He says he verbally said it. He can not guarantee though that everyone got that message, especially in a loud, vocal, arena.
There was no visual indication which could have helped him... is that lazy from top officials? See it often in the EPL and EFL too. Yet at grassroots, especially whilst going for promotion, we are told/reminded to not only use voice but hand signals too and vice versa.
In the attacking third, a cross over like that really should be dealt with by blowing the whistle before any verbal is given because at least when a whistle is blown, 99% of the players look at the referee to see why they've blown it.
 
Under MLS protocols, written questions can be submitted to the referee team after the game. Below are the Q&A that went to Kelly. He acknowledges the lack of a visual signal. When the AR is visually signalling one thing, seems pretty important to me that the R both be visual and slow it down to be sure there is not confusion. (Not only are TI/CK not reviewable by VAR, even if they were, it would have been too late, as play had restarted and nothing could be changed.)

(Edit: Doesn't look like the image is working. In sum: Kelly overruled ARl; verbal not visual informing the players by Kelly; not VAR reviewable)

img_20190714_212409-jpg.157027
 
Just read that the thrower didn't know the call either way and just guessed it was a throw in...
Assistant clearly indicates for corner.....
Screenshot_20190715-172627.jpg

And then points at the corner, seemingly reiterating it is a corner....
Screenshot_20190715-172805.jpg

Surely if the referee shouted it was a mistake by AR and it's a throw in, the AR would have heard it via the mic and changed his flag signal instead of point to the corner flag with his left hand whilst the flag is still pointing at the corner too.
 
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