The Ref Stop

NED v ARG

socal lurker said:
Nope, sorry, your statement that most of the refs on this board could do better is absolutely delusional and shows a complete lack of understanding of the difficulty level.

And I hate to disappoint you, but no one reffing in the WC is giving one moments thought about grass roots soccer. They are focused on doing what the powers that be have asked and maintaining that particular game. While referees around the world are going to think players should have been sent off, I don't think FIFA is going to be that unhappy with his performance--that game was a heck of a spectacle, and people will be talking about the game for a long time. And they won't be talking about their team losing because someone was sent off.
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The thing about “being part of the spectacle” is absolutely true. From personal experience-I’m refereeing some semi pro indoor soccer this winter. Even at this low “professional” level, the assignor told us “this is entertainment” and to manage things to maximize entertainment value. We are also to keep games at 2 hours because the league is trying to be more TV friendly.

If those directives are happening in what is very much minor league soccer, they are ABSOLUTELY part of the discussion at the World Cup.
 
The Ref Stop
RustyRef said:
The behaviour of both teams was appalling though. If that had been me refereeing a step 3/4/5 game and 10+ subs and coaches had run onto the pitch I would have emptied the bench, but I honestly don't think a FIFA referee would be supported in doing that.
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I feel like this is being hugely overlooked by media, fans and referees, it was shocking
 
george.g said:
I feel like this is being hugely overlooked by media, fans and referees, it was shocking
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Nothing new. Martin Keown is one of the best pundits when it comes to understanding refereeing issues, but he failed to understand the pressure the referee was under tonight.
 
As good as the Spaniard was in the Champions League Final many moons back, he was shoite tonoite
 
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Junu on TikTok

#🇦🇷 VS 🇳🇱 #argentinafansqatar #afaqatar #argetinaqatar #fifaworldcup2022 #traveltrendbyjunu
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Hope this lad likes Qatari prison food
 
Big Cat said:
vm.tiktok.com

Junu on TikTok

#🇦🇷 VS 🇳🇱 #argentinafansqatar #afaqatar #argetinaqatar #fifaworldcup2022 #traveltrendbyjunu
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Hope this lad likes Qatari prison food
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He will get released straight away as part of Qatar showing they are sensible.

If he'd done it in two week's time after the WC had finished they would throw away the key.
 
I thought the ref was inconsistent but there were also some very good decisions in a difficult game.

I wanted to know if the deliberate handball by Messi is not considered a YC offence? It doesn’t seem to be specifically mentioned in the LOTG but happy to be corrected by the experts.

I’ve always felt any deliberate attempt to stop play (foul, handball etc) is a YC offence but appreciate if it’s not in the rules it can’t be given. Wonder if ‘lack of respect for the game’ can cover this?
 
sanjay23 said:
I thought the ref was inconsistent but there were also some very good decisions in a difficult game.

I wanted to know if the deliberate handball by Messi is not considered a YC offence? It doesn’t seem to be specifically mentioned in the LOTG but happy to be corrected by the experts.

I’ve always felt any deliberate attempt to stop play (foul, handball etc) is a YC offence but appreciate if it’s not in the rules it can’t be given. Wonder if ‘lack of respect for the game’ can cover this?
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There are three occasions when handling the ball is a caution - attempting to score a goal, unsuccessfully attempting to prevent a goal, or handling it to stop a promising attack. This was none of those.
 
ARF said:
There are three occasions when handling the ball is a caution - attempting to score a goal, unsuccessfully attempting to prevent a goal, or handling it to stop a promising attack. This was none of those.
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Or persistent infringement.

Or as I felt might have been the case, unsporting behaviour.

Okay with no caution though if law applied as explicitly as is written.
 
JamesL said:
Or persistent infringement.

Or as I felt might have been the case, unsporting behaviour.

Okay with no caution though if law applied as explicitly as is written.
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Aye, lack of respect for the game; not a common occurence
 
Viking said:
I think you are delusional, but let's not be rude shall we? He is a referee who has made a large number of very poor decisions, possibly based on a directive that he's completely misunderstood. He has decided against giving 2nd yellows for reckless tackles and one red for the deliberate and violent action of kicking a ball into a subs bench, thus causing a flare up. This ref has made it harder for grassroots refs this weekend.
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The 'flare up' happened about 1 second after he kicked the ball - red or not, would not have stopped bench entering the pitch en masse.

So NO! the referee did NOT "cause the flare up" - that's what JP said!
 
sanjay23 said:
I’ve always felt any deliberate attempt to stop play (foul, handball etc) is a YC offence but appreciate if it’s not in the rules it can’t be given. Wonder if ‘lack of respect for the game’ can cover this?
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Unti, a few years ago, the caution for tactic handling included to prevent an p from gaining possession. IFAB removed that and limited it to stopping a promising track because they thought refs were issuing too many handling cautions that shouldn’t have been given. While I would like plays like Messi’s to be cautions, I I don’t think IFAB does. And given the ridiculously high standard for cautions through the cup, it certainly wasn’t going to be a caution here. (And I’d Messi had been cautioned here, the R wouldn’t have cautioned him for dissent later, so it’s a wash….)
 
Just to reiterate sentiments of mine that I've consistently stated about this Ref
I was entirely taken by his Champions League Final. Very rarely do we see something a bit different from an elite referee. That night, Lahoz broke away from what was expected of him; in doing so exhibited 'natural selection' traits that set himself aside from the crowd to the extent that his performance set a precedent that the Leagues tried to emulate at the start of the following season. However, as expected, the sheep eventually reverted to type (because they're understandably motivated to keep their jobs and risk averse) and nothing much changed in Refereeing

He's not been great since that Chelsea Cl Final. He seemed torn last night. Torn between his own style and that of his instructors. Alas, he clung onto his FIFA directives to the extent that his performance was a contradictory, inconsistent mess throughout. He wants to exert his own style, but 18 cautions without a red (in normal time) is an absolutely ridiculous stat that encapsulates the preposterous job bestowed on these refs

I really like this fella, I bet he'd be an awesome ref with unique qualities;
but like all of them, he's conflicted (by dreadful orders from above) and we'll never see him again for what he can be
 
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Big Cat said:
Just to reiterate sentiments of mine that I've consistently stated about this Ref
I was entirely taken by his Champions League Final. Very rarely do we see something a bit different from an elite referee. That night, Lahoz broke away from what was expected of him; in doing so exhibited 'natural selection' traits that set himself aside from the crowd to the extent that his performance set a precedent that the Leagues tried to emulate at the start of the following season. However, as expected, the sheep eventually reverted to type (because they're understandably motivated to keep their jobs and risk averse) and nothing much changed in Refereeing

He's not been great since that Chelsea Cl Final. He seemed torn last night. Torn between his own style and that of his instructors. Alas, he clung onto his FIFA directives to the extent that his performance was a contradictory, inconsistent mess throughout. He wants to exert his own style, but 18 cautions without a red (in normal time) is an absolutely ridiculous stat that encapsulates the preposterous job bestowed on these refs

I really like this fella, I bet he'd be an awesome ref with unique qualities;
but like all of them, he's conflicted (by dreadful orders from above) and we'll never see him again for what he can be
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Thanks for this. I think this thread has often bypassed the utterly barking FIFA instruction on 11v11 in looking too hard at Lahoz (including me in my first comment!). To deny referees the ability to apply every one of the LOTG at all times without fear or favour is the action undermining credibility of the game at all levels. Similar instructions in the USA to "keep the game under 2 hrs for TV" may seem relatively innocuous but are equally corrosive. Why have LOTG if they can be countermanded to meet demands outside those of a fair and well-officiated game? You may as well equally say, "we don't like goal kicks as they are boring, so call a corner whenever you can get away for it to liven the entertainment". Thin end of a destructive wedge whether at WC or any other level. Frankly, I despair - not only for elite referees but all of us at all levels...
...(added at 4.51pm...yet a RC IS given here in POR vs MOR ... what price an edict..?)
 
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Not sure if anyone has seen it, but Emi Martinez (Argentina keeper) did a BEIN Sports interview after the game, where he very clearly accused the referee of deliberately cheating. If FIFA have any backbone they should be charging him and ending his tournament, it is absolutely disgraceful however poor the refereeing performance might have been.

 
RustyRef said:
Not sure if anyone has seen it, but Emi Martinez (Argentina keeper) did a BEIN Sports interview after the game, where he very clearly accused the referee of deliberately cheating. If FIFA have any backbone they should be charging him and ending his tournament, it is absolutely disgraceful however poor the refereeing performance might have been.

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They can do what they like and say what they like, 'as long as its box office'. Of course, it's never really been any different down the years, but the boundaries are eroding away to nothing. Mirroring society
 
I think the Argentina comments should be sanctioned.

But also the comments are duplicitous. NED were massively disadvantaged by the bad decsions in this match. Paredes scored the 2nd pen. Messi was kicking people late in the game. Just like Cannavaro’s dirty Italy, I will be gutted if this team lifts the trophy - it would probably be a failure of officiating.
 
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