RefSix

My hardest match yet

HullRef

RefChat Addict
#1
Today I was refereeing a match in hull, mid table clash between blue and white.
First half was fine, no major problems, quite a few pushes in the back but nothing cynical.

Then in the second half, after about 5 minutes of the second a very close goal/ no goal decision. Ball played in from the wing, hits the back post, rebounds t the keeper who catches it on the goal line. Long blast on the whistle, point to the centre mark, "Goal" *cue whole team running towards me shouting*. I explained that I was 100% sure it had crossed the goal line and although they weren't happy! everyone got on with the game. White scored the goal leaving it at 1-1 with about 30 mins left. 10 minuets after this the ball goes out for a blue goal kick, then as I am turning round to jog back to position, the white striker calls the blue goal keeper a "f***ing Curley haired pr***" so I sent him off for OFFINABUS. I made a mistake here because I have now pi**** off both teams and parents and managers.

But after the game both managers were very civilised, the blue manager told me that the goal wasn't a goal and that all of his teams parents agreed, I then politely pointed out to him that all of his parents including himself and the other coaches were stood in the wrong half of the pitch behind the respect barrier. He then went on to say "Didn't the player's reactions prove anything to you?" I said "yeah" so he then said " so you weren't 100% sure it was a goal if their reaction proved you wrong" so I said "No their reaction just proved to me that another 11 people were wrong along with all of your parents"

BOOM!! 1-0 to the ref
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#3
Good story

My thoughts:-

I'd be interested to know where you were standing when the ball hit the back post and rebounded to the keeper who caught it on the line

i trust that you didn't think you'd made a mistake in sending the white player off

i do worry about this oneupmanship approach that some referees seem to adopt

We, too, have a respect code
 

ref craig

RefChat Addict
#4
But this Is way I look to it even thou players managers spectators referees have the respect code as we command respect on field of play if a manager is going to moan at decisions we have med and we are right they are wrong they want to put the blame on someone it the same with that linesman i had to dismiss 6 weeks ago there was no respect from him so why should I respect him if he going to be like that and unless a person is not going to show me respect then I will not do the same thing and this is what me and hull are portraying across
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#5
i agree that it's not always easy, Craig, but we have rise above it....do what we need to do and report what we need to report
 

HullRef

RefChat Addict
#6
I was only joking with the 1-0 thing, I try and have a light hearted approach to every game and this was just a bit of banter after the match with the manager. I don't see anything wrong with it personally and I hate it when I play and we get a really wooden ref, most people need to remember that it is only a game (just re read it, no indirect to you @haywain but a general point for some refs I have had and for the new ones coming into the game)

When I gave the goal I was about 5 yards out but could clearly see that it went in, no doubts. The other giveaway was that there was a big wind blowing towards that goal and the keeper caught it, dived forward at full stretch and landed with half of the ball on, half over the goal line.
 
#7
When I gave the goal I was about 5 yards out but could clearly see that it went in, no doubts. The other giveaway was that there was a big wind blowing towards that goal and the keeper caught it, dived forward at full stretch and landed with half of the ball on, half over the goal line.
The ball has to be fully over the goal line.......
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#8
I think that's where the ball ended up after the keeper had dived forward with it at full stretch, Ryan. implication being that he caught it well behind the line
 

Ryan Owens

Token Colonial
Level 3 Referee
#10
I, too, am worried about the banter that you got engaged in. A little back-and-forth is fine, but you have a responsibility to act professionally whilst on the pitch and off. Remember: you represent your FA, your county, and the league.

As for the OFFINABUS, I assume you felt it was a good call but do you think you might just have been a bit harsh? Players call each other all kinds of nasty things and this doesn't seem to strike at the deepest levels of nasty to me. Perhaps a caution for unsporting behavior would have served you better?
 

HullRef

RefChat Addict
#11
I personal have to completely disagree with you @Ryan Owens, I think that swearing at an opponent or official is clear OFFINABUS but I know that lots of people disagree with me on that. Just out of interest what would you have done if the player had said that to you? Would you still have gone for the unsporting behaviour or OFFINABUS?

I had another incident today almost identical.

The ball went to the keeper, as the striker ran past he put his leg out to try and make it look like he had been tripped, I told him that he wasn't tripped and to get up, the keeper also told him that he didn't trip him (he was really nice about it too, nothing sarcastic or patronising) and then as the striker was running back he called the keeper a "F**king k***head" so I sent him off for OFFINABUS, it couldn't have been more identical if it was staged. The manager of the striker didn't complain once I had explained what had happened, some of the players teammates told me I should've just given him a warning but I told them that the offence required a straight red. One player moaned that I should've let him off because there was only 2 minutes left in the game and another wanted to know why it was an IDFK to restart play.
 

Ryan Owens

Token Colonial
Level 3 Referee
#13
I personal have to completely disagree with you @Ryan Owens, I think that swearing at an opponent or official is clear OFFINABUS but I know that lots of people disagree with me on that. Just out of interest what would you have done if the player had said that to you? Would you still have gone for the unsporting behaviour or OFFINABUS?

I had another incident today almost identical.

The ball went to the keeper, as the striker ran past he put his leg out to try and make it look like he had been tripped, I told him that he wasn't tripped and to get up, the keeper also told him that he didn't trip him (he was really nice about it too, nothing sarcastic or patronising) and then as the striker was running back he called the keeper a "F**king k***head" so I sent him off for OFFINABUS, it couldn't have been more identical if it was staged. The manager of the striker didn't complain once I had explained what had happened, some of the players teammates told me I should've just given him a warning but I told them that the offence required a straight red. One player moaned that I should've let him off because there was only 2 minutes left in the game and another wanted to know why it was an IDFK to restart play.
It would have to depend on how loud he said it, who was within earshot etc.
 
#14
When you get to open age football if you keeping branding that red card for these incidents you will end up abandoning games guys, name calling and petty squabbles go on right the way through the 90 odd minutes its all about your style and man management to effectively cut it down.
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#15
When you get to open age football if you keeping branding that red card for these incidents you will end up abandoning games guys, name calling and petty squabbles go on right the way through the 90 odd minutes its all about your style and man management to effectively cut it down.
One match in to my Open Age career, I'm not about to dispute what you say, Oliver, but isn't this the problem with refereeing in a nut-shell...and one not too dissimilar to the footballing issue of holding players in the box.

Allow me to fantasize for a moment...

No referee, as far as I know, has ever been suspended for applying the lotg correctly, though whether referees have ever 'lost' games for doing so may be a different case.

So imagine if you, as a referee, apply the lotg correctly where Offinabus is concerned. You can, in the interests of good man management, warn the players in advance that you will have a zero tolerance approach to anything that you consider to be offensive, insulting or abusive. You may end up having to abandon a game or two because enough players transgress, tho hopefully, even the hard of learning amongst them would realise before it's too late that offinabus, just like the law states, really does mean a red card.

The message should eventually filter down, through the players in the leagues that you referee in, that this referee really doesn't take any sh......sugar. Who knows, it might even filter down to the other referees in the league.

You still get and expect name calling and petty squabbles in your games, it would seem, despite your best efforts at man management so, if the objective is to remove offinabus offences from your games, which is a worthy objective, then this other, more draconian method surely has more likelihood of success in the long term.

The same argument is always rolled out about players holding in the box at corners and the number of penalties that would result if referees applied the lotg correctly. However, some people quite rightly argue, imho, that although there may be some initial 'carnage', players would eventually adapt and football would continue in a slightly 'purer' vein.

Please remember, this is coming from a guy who, in his first Open Age game on Saturday, did no more than speak to a player who called an opposition player a 'd@ckhead' within earshot of a good few players and the referee.

P.s. Plan B could always be to fight fire with fire

Player to opponent 'You f@cking C@ckhead'

Ref to player - listen you tw@t, any more of that language and you can f*ck right off my pitch

You never know, it just might work :)
 

HullRef

RefChat Addict
#16
That's the sort of stance I have to OFFINABUS, I don't like it and don't see a reason for it, I seem to be brandishing a few reds because at junior level I want them to recognise that they cant say that sort of stuff to anyone on the pitch. I know that at OA there will be a lot of this but my thinking is that if I punish it to start with ( like haywain said) , maybe it will make them think twice the next time I ref them and hopefully when I'm not reffing them.
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#17
A few thoughts here as a 14 year veteran of the open age game. Goal decision - spot on. Banter (hate that word) with the manager - leave it at work/school, etc. On the field be as professional as you can. OFFINABUS - spot on decision. Ryan I think you got that seriously wrong if you think that is acceptable on any field. Same goes for you Oliver.

If you sanction this type of comment correctly, ie with a dismissal, I guarantee you will stop hearing it in your games as word will get around that you will not tolerate OFFINABUS.
 
#19
Good points all round but to quote @haywain "You can, in the interests of good man management, warn the players in advance that you will have a zero tolerance approach to anything that you consider to be offensive, insulting or abusive" The key phrase here is "that you consider", the LOTG do not clarify this and each individual referee has a different take on this. Having played the game to semi pro standard I personally am not offended by off the cuff swearing or frustration or petty name calling and I have never whether playing or reffing heard a player ask for a red card because he has been called a name. Now if a player takes it too far, screams at the player, makes any kind of threat, uses any racist taunt or takes it too far with me then I will apply the OFINABUS law.

One example of this:-

I am acting as assistant on a game say red and blue, red attacking and the attacker is very cute with his runs arcing them to avoid being offside, the defender believes I am getting the decision wrong everytime and is becoming frustrated and therefore giving me a bit of gip, I warned him twice and eventually he makes 5 steps towards me to shout fu**ing no chance liner, I call over the referee who caution's the player. In my opinion if the referee had dismissed that player then he would have lost the players immediately and the game is gone.

2nd example:-

In the middle this time, warn a player twice about his language and dissent before he does it for a third time at which point I ask him to come to one side and I pull out my book to caution him, his response? From 5 yards away shouts F**k you, you Fu**in P**ck, I pop the book back into my pocket and reach for my back pocket for the red.

For me these two examples are very different, feel free to comment or disagree.
 

SM

The avuncular one
#20
Funny thing here, depending on the temperature of the game (so to speak) either a red for OFFINABUS or a sharp word of (final) warning (or anything in between) can do the trick. Lots of variables to take into consideration, but if you as the ref decide that all things considered it is a red, then so be it. Player has certainly done enough to justify that decision.

The only bad course of action would be to do nothing or to shy away from taking a course of action that you believe you should take.
 
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