A&H

Mouthy coach

Jono333

New Member
Level 9 Referee
Hi all

First game in a year and only my 5th game in 2 years. Hopefully have overcome my injury and can play far more regularly from now.

Reffed this morning for the first time in almost a year, it’s my 5th game which means my test is imminent. I’ve got a few things from the match which is like to ask my fellow colleagues. Firstly the home team coach was an absolute nightmare and something I’ve yet to experience. I’ll list the events and dialogue from the game and hopefully get some advice to improve next time.

1) I think I’ve learned to always take the split second to watch what happens before the play is played or moves before watching the ball. There were two incidents where I should have followed this rule. Firstly there was an incident whereby the blue team player played the ball and as I watched the ball go to the blue attacker I hear a very loud exchange which sounded like a ‘kick out’ by a blue team player. Furthermore the red player goes down in agony. I don’t fully see the incident but I book the blue player for reckless play (I felt he followed through on a tackle unnecessarily), this led to the blue team player asking why he was booked in which I explained that I felt he kept his foot in after the tackle. Him and the coach disagreed with this decision and moaned it was a ‘coming together’. Should I have dealt with this differently?

There was a further incident where I don’t feel I kept full eyes on play (and instead watched the ball). Red team go through on goal, he kicks it past the running out goalie and scores. My eyes are on the ball but I notice in my peripheral vision that there was a ‘coming together’ at first I thought it was the running out goalie but red team players and coach were stating that it was the ‘blue number 3’ that went in hard. Apparently it was a red card according to a few players on the red team but I used the excuse that I played on for the goal which most of the team understood and accepts. My improvement point here is to watch what happens after the ball is kicked in these incidents to see if anyone has gone in hard and look for penalty shouts.

Overall I felt I had a good game but the home coach felt otherwise. During an injury stoppage he came over to me and stated ‘is kicking the ball away allowed now is it’ to which I immediately knew I’d have a problem with this coach. I don’t feel that the red team purposely delayed the restart of play and therefore I carried on with the game. What I mean by this is that the red team didn’t boot the ball away but weren’t exactly rushing to give the blue team the ball quickly when I gave a foul to the blue team but I didn’t feel like it was delaying the restart. Anyway after the game he was very vocal towards me. He came straight over to me after the game and stated the following:

“How many foul throws do you want to miss? One of them led to a goal!”
“You missed every foul for us but did the opposite for them every time”
“Their player took our players out at every opportunity during a long ball and you ignored it”
“During kick off you kicked off with one of their players in our half!’

As you can see he was a serial moaner. How do you deal with people like this? I just stated to him that I felt the long balls were contested fairly and appropriately and were subjective. At the end we just agreed to disagree but he was at me from the word go. Pretty upset about this as it has really affected my confidence as I felt I did quite well today but never mind.

I don’t want to give constant fouls for ‘pushing’ on 50/50s as the game would never be played, I’d personally much rather let play continue unless its an obvious push in the back. I was thinking well if that’s all you can moan about 50/50 long balls and foul throws I mustn’t have done that bad. Anyway thanks for reading I know what I need to improve on and will strive to improve. Just upsetting when coaches affect your confidence on this manner

My improvement points are as follows

-watch for foul throws even when you can’t see the pitch lines ! (Very poor pitch lines)
- watch for pushes and pulls on 50/50 long balls. I don’t want to be blowing up for them every 5 seconds but just watch for obv ones
-watch the aftermath of a shot for any fouls and who committed them.
 
The Referee Store
Always take coaches with a heavy dose of salt. They see the game through very colored glasses. Listen to what they say, consider whether any of it was helpful, and then flush.

Some thought:
-ffs, arguing about foul throws? Really? If I was going to make a list of the east important calls refs make, that’s at the top.
-any time they say you made different calls for and against them, you know you’re being played
-on long balls, I’d say a few things to watch for. Using ha Rs to creat space, undercutting someone in the air (I’m big on this one, perhaps from basketball background), and going over the top of someone who has better position.
-take you time on KOs to make sure everything is set—there’s no rush

But really don’t take the comments from the coach too seriously
 
@Jono333 well done for getting through it and good luck with coming back from injury.

Wider context: sounds like a tough game. When you ref alone, any game with off the ball stuff and niggles behind your back is very hard.

The coach is just trying to undermine you. He can sniff you are new and he is wasting his breath.

Your #1 is interesting. If you didn’t see it, should you really be giving it? Experienced refs learn to make some decisions from player reactions - but really very few - and usually simple ones like ricochets for corners.

Consider avoiding basing decisions on player reactions - especially if you one or more teams full of mouthy liars!

Using the “trailing eye” to watch for late tackles is a skill to practice. In a game like yours it’s important. Remember you don’t have to watch the ball in the air - you watch the players.


There are 2 things on my mind: your position and selling decisions.

If you are alone and you’ve got problem players all around then take a wider view so you have all players in view. Stopping a match getting out of control with off the ball hacks is more important than a throw in call.

The opposite is also true, if you’ve got a problem player out for revenge then you can get close to calm them. Same at corners: don’t hide, make eye contact, move, remind them you are there.

And selling. Not everytime but the odd... “I saw that, carry on” and sometimes “sorry guys I didn’t see it” work wonders. Better still in difficult situations is to make - and communicate - your decision before the whinging starts: “yes, you got the ball, but then a lot of the man... it’s not a card...”
 
3 rules of mouthy managers,

Mainly ignore (they hate that), its just blather and if that doesn't work, warn (they don't like that either) and then finally shift him! (they definitely don't like that) ;) Job done...
 
post: 159992 said:
Unless you have tons of experience (like our friend SF) and can easily detect when dissent is getting out of control and pull it back, I'd advise very much against this. It's a recipe for losing control of the game for newer referees.
Fair point @one but many newbies shouldn't openly court conflict either. They may be mouthy but they may have good law points and you don't want to get involved in a nerd law battle....
 
give coaches chances
1 ask. calm down coach
2 tell, bring them on the pitch for a ceremonial bollocking, they hate that
3 get ridwhen you see a coach weaing tracksuit trousers tucked into the socks
a 1960 stop watch hanging round the neck, buy a wristwatch man
any kind of clipboard, notebook
you know this is going to be a fun game i agree with ssanta samgria if you didnt see it dont guess
 
To the original poster, some of what you have described falls nicely into the clarification of law for offences by club officials. I would slightly amend @jofusref recommendations. I would do ask, then tell but step 3 would be to issue a card (probably a yellow one) and let the coach know that if he continued, then he would get second and he would be sent off.

Sometimes you can pre-empt low level dissent before the game. Example from today, I gathered both teams and both sets of coaches. I reminded them that there had been some changes to law. I talked about sin bins, goal kicks and hand ball. In front of the players I talked to the coaches about the kind of thing that could see them carded. I laid it on thick with them (the coaches) and when the players went to take up position, I made sure the coaches were aware that they needed to show a good example. All agreed and all did just that. One player came close to a sin bin but I used the stepped approach with him and his coach took him off for 15 minutes. When he came back, he said nothing to me. I did issue 3 cautions, one for a player rugby tackling an opponent, but I managed to laugh and joke with the coaches and the spectators and it was a great game of football.
 
I'm usually a lot harder on coaches and managers than players, as if you let them get away with it there is a very high chance it will spread to the players. Usually they reign it in when I've calmly spoken to them, but if not and they continue to complain about every decision they will be departing the scene.
 
Thanks for much all for your thorough and excellent replies. I will take all this on board for the next game even on this one game I felt like I learnt a hell of a lot. Now time for the dreaded test to become fully qualified and then we go again!
 
Thanks for much all for your thorough and excellent replies. I will take all this on board for the next game even on this one game I felt like I learnt a hell of a lot. Now time for the dreaded test to become fully qualified and then we go again!
Never stop learning, game 1, game 500, every game is a school day!
 
To the original poster, some of what you have described falls nicely into the clarification of law for offences by club officials. I would slightly amend @jofusref recommendations. I would do ask, then tell but step 3 would be to issue a card (probably a yellow one) and let the coach know that if he continued, then he would get second and he would be sent off.

Sometimes you can pre-empt low level dissent before the game. Example from today, I gathered both teams and both sets of coaches. I reminded them that there had been some changes to law. I talked about sin bins, goal kicks and hand ball. In front of the players I talked to the coaches about the kind of thing that could see them carded. I laid it on thick with them (the coaches) and when the players went to take up position, I made sure the coaches were aware that they needed to show a good example. All agreed and all did just that. One player came close to a sin bin but I used the stepped approach with him and his coach took him off for 15 minutes. When he came back, he said nothing to me. I did issue 3 cautions, one for a player rugby tackling an opponent, but I managed to laugh and joke with the coaches and the spectators and it was a great game of football.

I've explained sin bins to every set of players/coaches so far this season. It's been really useful, not only did they understand how it all works but it opens a dialogue. There seemed to be genuine appreciation that I'd decided to explain things to them and that I could answer their questions. Most importantly, it got everyone to think about dissent, and I genuinely believe that it's had a hugely positive impact on my games this year. 6 so far, not a single sin bin yellow. I called the captain in as part of a stepped approach once today and the captain told his team mate to shut up and the manager said if he said one more word then he'd be subbed. Perfect!
 
give coaches chances
1 ask. calm down coach
2 tell, bring them on the pitch for a ceremonial bollocking, they hate that
3 get ridwhen you see a coach weaing tracksuit trousers tucked into the socks
a 1960 stop watch hanging round the neck, buy a wristwatch man
any kind of clipboard, notebook
you know this is going to be a fun game i agree with ssanta samgria if you didnt see it dont guess

As of this year, we have warn , caution (yellow card), dismiss (red card). Law 12 now has a list of (in general) what should warrant each level. A useful read for new refs to go back to. But keep in mind it is general.
 
Your #1 is interesting. If you didn’t see it, should you really be giving it? Experienced refs learn to make some decisions from player reactions - but really very few - and usually simple ones like ricochets for corners.

Consider avoiding.
This. Especially since it involved a card and was based almost solely on a player's reaction. If you didn't actually see it, you shouldn't really be giving it. The player might commit another yellow card offence later and you would then end up having to send him off when you've no actual idea whether he did anything to deserve the first yellow.

Better to give the player a warning, use words to the effect that you're going to be keeping a close eye on him and if he steps out of line any more he'll be in trouble. Don't directly threaten to caution a player if he does something again or you're painting yourself into a corner. That is, you'll be obliged to either caution them for their next offence even though it might not rise to the level of a caution, or risk being seen to have lacked the resolution to do what you'd promised, to the detriment of your match control.
 
Let me guess, it was the losing teams coach.

You can now issue cards to coaches so treat him like a player, if he has a bit of a moan then give him a warning, next time yellow, anymore red card and goodbye.
 
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