A&H

Mid Season (not so) Friendly

L

ladbroke8745

RefChat Addict
Well, say friendly, with a couple of minutes to go it turned to not be a friendly but a battle. Under 17s friendly between whites and greens.

Basically the game was always going to be tough as the away team are known to cause trouble, but I would deem myself to be a strong ref and ignore the calls from players and managers who demand a free kick every time they lose the ball.
The game finished 6-4 to that said away side.

With 2 minutes to go, white player goes into a challenge by sliding in, whilst a green player goes in standing up. The green had won the ball by lifting his foot off the floor and naturally needs to put the foot back on the ground. He did, but on the whites shin. In my opinion there was absolutely no malice or intent and if anything I'd have said that the white was in the wrong by sliding in but I think again he was trying to block the ball but the pitch being very wet the momentum carried him. But as the white player screamed in pain, I stopped the game for him to receive immediate treatment. It was only a friendly so didn't feel the need to play advantage or anything of the like.
As soon as I blew, the injured player sat up, cursed about the challenge and I said it was fair. He didn't like that response. He got up and confronted the green who responded by putting his head to the white head.
The white player is a fair bit shorter and in connecting heads (didn't seem much to it other than moaning) it seemed the green then had a bleeding nose. I should have sent the pair off. But I thought with 2 minutes to go, get them both subbed off and kill the game. This worked, to a degree.

The manager of green was furious with me at the end that his player ended up off the pitch with a bleeding nose (he refused to accept that although the white confronted him, the green was the first to put head towards the opponent - even though I would not have described it as a headbutt, more of a coming together).
I tried to explain that I asked both players to leave as a measure to calm down with 2 minutes to go and not to spoil an otherwise good game (1 other incident in the game which again involves a green player that should and would have got a straight red in any other game). He was, as I said, furious that I never sent him off and then I said I should have sent one of his much earlier for attempting to kick an opponent off the ball after being dragged back by the arm to stop him from defending an attack.
The manager was saying that I am wrong and that it is definitely not violent conduct and maybe I should read the rules (I was not going to argue back and say laws, which I have done in the past). I said that despite not making contact, the law states if a player used brutality against an opponent when not going for the ball is an offence. The player tried to swipe the legs of the opponent for pulling him back and completely missed. The player admitted to me when I had a chat with him that he was wrong. Why couldn't the manager accept it? I admitted defeat (in my head) that he was not going to change his own blinkered view on what went on and walked away.

I think my leniency in friendlies are going to stop. The teams knew each other which is why they played each other (for the 3rd time this season in the school holidays in friendlies). But this was ridiculous.
 
The Referee Store
Anyone that uses their head in any way other than to head a ball or to figuratively use their brain should be walking in my opinion, friendly or not. As the old adage goes, "there's no such thing as a friendly".

Good job on walking away from the manager though - you're not going to change his mind, sounds like a hot head who won't listen to you. You've explained your point, if you're right in law, doesn't matter what he thinks.
 
alexgr said:
Anyone that uses their head in any way other than to head a ball or to figuratively use their brain should be walking in my opinion, friendly or not. As the old adage goes, "there's no such thing as a friendly".
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I agree. I thought I was using a bit of common sense with 2 minutes to go in what was a pretty well mannered game until that point. Both players went off without arguments.
They both apologised after the game. The manager for green went mental.
 
Ashleigh Goodall said:
I think my leniency in friendlies are going to stop.
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Yeah, might as well. I actually changed my view on this thanks to a good club manager who used to ask for me personally for friendlies. I just made an off the cuff comment about being lenient in the friendly, and he asked me not to. "Bring the cards out like you would in a normal game" he said. Then, players don't get lulled into a sense of false security as the season starts and start getting cautioned for challenges they thought were fine because of the friendly etc.

Still, I do give more leeway in friendlies - for errors and mistimed challenges due to the nature of pre-season! I recall one game though that was just ridiculous, the away team went in with about three leg-breaker challenges, I sent them off, apparently missed another sending off offence too. Both managers agreed that the sent off players could be 'subbed' - I'm aware this flouts the laws, but it was a pre-season friendly, so again I put it to one side. I was actually very surprised the home manager agreed to those terms given they were getting lumps kicked out of them!

alexgr said:
Anyone that uses their head in any way other than to head a ball or to figuratively use their brain should be walking in my opinion, friendly or not.
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Funny that. I had one of those deer rutting scenes at my last game, and cautioned both for 'AA', Adopting an Aggressive attitude - there was a flash point, partially my own damn fault, and I felt it was a bit of handbags from the two involved. There was no butting, just... a gentleman's kiss, if you want to call it that. I probably should have sent them off, but the cautions did settle them both down and things were a lot more smoother from that point on. Probably not wise on any other day I suppose.
 
Leniency? If anything I'm stricter in friendlies. At least on dissent and aggression in particular. My justification is that being a friendly there's really no reason at all to carry on like a pork chop. I mean, a season match you can kind of understand it (I know that's kind of excusing the toxic football culture, but it's something we're all stuck with). But you're going to mouth off, or try to square up to somebody, over a game that means literally nothing??? Take a hike!!!

I think there's some scope for leniency on some things....maybe bend the laws a bit more on DOGSO, that sort of thing.
 
alexgr said:
Anyone that uses their head in any way other than to head a ball or to figuratively use their brain should be walking in my opinion, friendly or not.
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Interesting take imo. Lotg specifically states that where the force used is negligible this should not be deemed as violent conduct.

Two players going head to head (or deer rutting as @RobOda puts it - I like it) with no actual striking/attempted striking is not neccessarily a sending off offence
 
Yeah, but if somebody had a bleeding nose it does suggest there was a strike. That doesn't happen from doing the romantic 'forehead to forehead' thing.

Though of course, if you haven't seen anything you can't send off just on the presence of blood
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Yeah, but if somebody had a bleeding nose it does suggest there was a strike. That doesn't happen from doing the romantic 'forehead to forehead' thing.

Though of course, if you haven't seen anything you can't send off just on the presence of blood
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Thats the point, through the crowd of people, all I saw was the two players coming together. No suggestion of an actual headbutt. I know one was shorter than the other and foreheads were never going to match in this and the "offending" player may well have gone in a bit harder with his forehead, but it would have been a pure guess. It wasn't until I was in the middle of them that I saw the blood so was a guess (although I would likely be correct if I'm honest) of how that came about.
 
Then I think your reasoning is fine. Coming together like they're about to make out isn't a red card IMO. Though I think they're both asking for a yellow card. And as I said before, I'm even more likely to give it at a friendly.

If the manner was over-the-top aggressive that would still warrant a red. I don't think you did anything wrong.

Though perhaps next time don't respond to the manager with 'yeah but I let one go for you before'. That's never going to make him quieten down - and in this case it just started another argument :)
 
Tough call really. Some people are more susceptible to bloody noses... I sometimes get random nose bleeds with no trigger. There's potential that he just had a nose bleed at that time. It could be that it was indeed himself that was too forceful. Its a yhtbt and see it really isnt it to judge the force. Its plausible that the force was negligible and the player still got a bloody nose. I was mainly pointing out that just the use of heads is not a definite red card offence at all times.
 
Ashleigh Goodall said:
Well, say friendly, with a couple of minutes to go it turned to not be a friendly but a battle. Under 17s friendly between whites and greens.

Basically the game was always going to be tough as the away team are known to cause trouble, but I would deem myself to be a strong ref and ignore the calls from players and managers who demand a free kick every time they lose the ball.
The game finished 6-4 to that said away side.

With 2 minutes to go, white player goes into a challenge by sliding in, whilst a green player goes in standing up. The green had won the ball by lifting his foot off the floor and naturally needs to put the foot back on the ground. He did, but on the whites shin. In my opinion there was absolutely no malice or intent and if anything I'd have said that the white was in the wrong by sliding in but I think again he was trying to block the ball but the pitch being very wet the momentum carried him. But as the white player screamed in pain, I stopped the game for him to receive immediate treatment. It was only a friendly so didn't feel the need to play advantage or anything of the like.
As soon as I blew, the injured player sat up, cursed about the challenge and I said it was fair. He didn't like that response. He got up and confronted the green who responded by putting his head to the white head.
The white player is a fair bit shorter and in connecting heads (didn't seem much to it other than moaning) it seemed the green then had a bleeding nose. I should have sent the pair off. But I thought with 2 minutes to go, get them both subbed off and kill the game. This worked, to a degree.

The manager of green was furious with me at the end that his player ended up off the pitch with a bleeding nose (he refused to accept that although the white confronted him, the green was the first to put head towards the opponent - even though I would not have described it as a headbutt, more of a coming together).
I tried to explain that I asked both players to leave as a measure to calm down with 2 minutes to go and not to spoil an otherwise good game (1 other incident in the game which again involves a green player that should and would have got a straight red in any other game). He was, as I said, furious that I never sent him off and then I said I should have sent one of his much earlier for attempting to kick an opponent off the ball after being dragged back by the arm to stop him from defending an attack.
The manager was saying that I am wrong and that it is definitely not violent conduct and maybe I should read the rules (I was not going to argue back and say laws, which I have done in the past). I said that despite not making contact, the law states if a player used brutality against an opponent when not going for the ball is an offence. The player tried to swipe the legs of the opponent for pulling him back and completely missed. The player admitted to me when I had a chat with him that he was wrong. Why couldn't the manager accept it? I admitted defeat (in my head) that he was not going to change his own blinkered view on what went on and walked away.

I think my leniency in friendlies are going to stop. The teams knew each other which is why they played each other (for the 3rd time this season in the school holidays in friendlies). But this was ridiculous.
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Back to the original challenge. You don't say which way you gave it... you say you said it was "fair"... did you restart dropped ball?
IMHO you are describing a foul by green. An accident but a foul. Treading on someone's shin has to be careless, unless you are penalising white for a careless sliding tackle.

Then the heads, your call, YHTBT, yellows or reds, but asking for 17 year olds to be subbed to avoid sanctions IMHO bad idea. It gives everyone a reason to feel victimised and to blame. They are 17. Give them strong brief verbals and show the cards. Make everyone know it is not acceptable. You do not want the same thing again in the 94th minute or at the final whistle. If you haven't seen VC then, blood or not, YCs surely.

Then the conversation with the manager: you say you bought up an earlier incident where you should have sent someone off, as some kind of argument to use with the manager? I think that is IMHO a mistake. You are admitting to a mistake, eroding your match control, it could easily seem petty, and the manager has all kinds of conflicted reasons not to trust you, and to argue with you more. The players might also decide to exact their own revenge;)

Just my two cents - and, for the record, I have done these three things myself and regretted it later (much later after learning from colleagues and here in the case of argumentative managers!).
 
santa sangria said:
Back to the original challenge. You don't say which way you gave it... you say you said it was "fair"... did you restart dropped ball?
IMHO you are describing a foul by green. An accident but a foul. Treading on someone's shin has to be careless, unless you are penalising white for a careless sliding tackle.

Then the heads, your call, YHTBT, yellows or reds, but asking for 17 year olds to be subbed to avoid sanctions IMHO bad idea. It gives everyone a reason to feel victimised and to blame. They are 17. Give them strong brief verbals and show the cards. Make everyone know it is not acceptable. You do not want the same thing again in the 94th minute or at the final whistle. If you haven't seen VC then, blood or not, YCs surely.

Then the conversation with the manager: you say you bought up an earlier incident where you should have sent someone off, as some kind of argument to use with the manager? I think that is IMHO a mistake. You are admitting to a mistake, eroding your match control, it could easily seem petty, and the manager has all kinds of conflicted reasons not to trust you, and to argue with you more. The players might also decide to exact their own revenge;)

Just my two cents - and, for the record, I have done these three things myself and regretted it later (much later after learning from colleagues and here in the case of argumentative managers!).
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I appreciate the two cents.
Its the first friendly that I've had that has even got me talking like this. Every other one has passed without fault.
I will definitely be treating friendlies different from now.
 
No, no and thrice no!
You know you should have sent them off......it does not matter that it is a 'friendly'.
 
With friendlies, I usually use the technique of requesting substitutes for things like persistent fouls. Things like VC or INOFFABUS will still receive a red without hesitation
 
I appreciate this advice.
I only used this because there was only 2 minutes left and thought get them both off without causing a bigger scene before the end of the game.
Obviously a bad error in judgement.
 
QuaverRef said:
With friendlies, I usually use the technique of requesting substitutes for things like persistent fouls. Things like VC or INOFFABUS will still receive a red without hesitation
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No, surely you realise that you should referee all matches as if they were competitive games. Tolerance may be slightly higher, you may allow one more foul challenge before a card for persistance, etcetera, but otherwise the same
 
QuaverRef said:
With friendlies, I usually use the technique of requesting substitutes for things like persistent fouls. Things like VC or INOFFABUS will still receive a red without hesitation
Click to expand...


If the teams request a referee, then, for me, you referee the game as usual

If they want players subbed for mouthing etc then they should get a coach to ref it
 
My most reds shown ever in one game to one team was in a friendly... 3 off from the same team and it could have been a few more too...Appalling in a friendly with so called mates in the other team!! I was in friendly mode initially, its a shame they weren't!!! Had to change my tact as the thuggery stepped up!!! ......Another game I spoiled from memory!!! Yeh, right!!!
 
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