A&H

McTominay on Son

Did McTominay foul Son?

  • Total voters
    43
Reffing4Life

Reffing4Life

Active Member
Level 7 Referee
Do you think McTominay fouled Son when he hit him in the face while running?

My view is that McTominay committed a careless foul (no caution needed) and Kavanagh (the referee) made the correct decision following his review of the incident at the pitchside monitor. To me, McTominay’s arm wasn’t in his natural running movement.

What do you think?
 
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Jacktscallaghan said:
Do you think McTominay fouled Son when he hit him in the face while running?

My view is that McTominay committed a careless foul (no caution needed) and Kavanagh (the referee) made the correct decision following his review of the incident at the pitchside monitor. To me, McTominay’s arm wasn’t in his natural running movement.

What do you think?
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Are you reading a press release?
 
santa sangria said:
Well, you have written what PGMOL announced (during half time) and in your pic it looks like, well, you could be reading the PGMOL statement!
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😆 I’ve not seen the half time thing, I just watched the foul and that was it so I was just curious as to what everyone else thought because I noticed some people saying it was ridiculous and that the goal should’ve stood.
 
I think:
It was trifling
Football expects this goal to stand
It was re-refereeing the game (which we were promised would not happen)
Not for the first time in this round of premier league matches, the turning point in the match has been a seemingly arbitrary/random VAR "recommendation".
The protocol is broken.
It's only going to get worse.
VAR is rubbish.
Ditch it.
 
santa sangria said:
I think:
It was trifling
Football expects this goal to stand
It was re-refereeing the game (which we were promised would not happen)
Not for the first time in this round of premier league matches, the turning point in the match has been a seemingly arbitrary/random VAR "recommendation".
The protocol is broken.
It's only going to get worse.
VAR is rubbish.
Ditch it.
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I do agree partially. VAR isn’t what it should be but it seems like it’s down to the workmen rather than their tools in my opinion. Perhaps there could be a better way of using it but the current way of doing things isn’t working. Maybe it could be used similarly to other sports as it seems to work better for sports like Cricket and Rugby.
 
First things first, refereeing is becoming impossible because of the behaviour of players. Had Son not flung himself to the flaw after the slightest of touches there would have been no decision to make, and similar things were happening all through the game (and every other game for that matter). Yes one again it is the officials that are getting the blame, whereas the blatant cheating of players is barely getting a mention.

Whatever decision was made one side would have been outraged, and I can see both arguments. The hand movement definitely wasn't part of Mctominay's running motion, but for me he felt contact from Son and then just did what every player does and held his ground, and I certainly don't think that not giving the foul was a clear and obvious error. I've said this before, but I firmly believe that referees have been told not to go against a VAR recommendation, after all PGMOL never wanted the screens to be used at all. Once Pawson recommends the review I felt it was inevitable it was disallowed as he wouldn't want to risk incurring the wrath of his paymasters.
 
RustyRef said:
First things first, refereeing is becoming impossible because of the behaviour of players. Had Son not flung himself to the flaw after the slightest of touches there would have been no decision to make, and similar things were happening all through the game (and every other game for that matter). Yes one again it is the officials that are getting the blame, whereas the blatant cheating of players is barely getting a mention.

Whatever decision was made one side would have been outraged, and I can see both arguments. The hand movement definitely wasn't part of Mctominay's running motion, but for me he felt contact from Son and then just did what every player does and held his ground, and I certainly don't think that not giving the foul was a clear and obvious error. I've said this before, but I firmly believe that referees have been told not to go against a VAR recommendation, after all PGMOL never wanted the screens to be used at all. Once Pawson recommends the review I felt it was inevitable it was disallowed as he wouldn't want to risk incurring the wrath of his paymasters.
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Are you a referee yourself? And if so, what would you give in that situation? Would you allow the goal to stand? Because I would have allowed the goal to stand as it isn’t an obvious foul when watching it at real speed (and probably from the referee’s angle too). However, once he goes to the monitor, regardless of what VAR recommends, I think it’s the correct decision to give the foul against McTominay.
 
Jacktscallaghan said:
Are you a referee yourself? And if so, what would you give in that situation? Would you allow the goal to stand? Because I would have allowed the goal to stand as it isn’t an obvious foul when watching it at real speed (and probably from the referee’s angle too). However, once he goes to the monitor, regardless of what VAR recommends, I think it’s the correct decision to give the foul against McTominay.
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Given this is a refereeing forum I suspect everyone is, or at some point was, a referee. Yes, I am a referee although these days I observe referees more than I referee. Real time I didn't see a foul, so given I never refereed at a level with VAR I wouldn't be giving anything and rather allowing the goal.

With VAR, if I was allowed to stick with the on field decision I would do, but as I said I suspect SG1 referees are strongly discouraged from sticking to their decision if VAR has recommended a review. If sticking with my decision was likely to see me removed from appointments for the next x weeks / months I would probably go with the VAR recommendation like Kavanagh did. The referees just don't look at all comfortable with VAR, I personally don't think it is the technology rather the implementation in England and the management of it.
 
The swing of the hand was unnecessary and wasn't as part of his natural movement. Son exaggerated the fall but that doesn't nullify the fact that there was contact to the face and it certainly wasn't negligible. If this was not in challenging for the ball the laws ask for a red card. What do we do if it was in challenging for the ball?
Players need to learn not to swing their hand/arm towards their oppoent's face. Football is a contact sport but this sort of contact, when deliberate, should not be part of it.
 
RustyRef said:
Given this is a refereeing forum I suspect everyone is, or at some point was, a referee. Yes, I am a referee although these days I observe referees more than I referee. Real time I didn't see a foul, so given I never refereed at a level with VAR I wouldn't be giving anything and rather allowing the goal.

With VAR, if I was allowed to stick with the on field decision I would do, but as I said I suspect SG1 referees are strongly discouraged from sticking to their decision if VAR has recommended a review. If sticking with my decision was likely to see me removed from appointments for the next x weeks / months I would probably go with the VAR recommendation like Kavanagh did. The referees just don't look at all comfortable with VAR, I personally don't think it is the technology rather the implementation in England and the management of it.
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That’s fair enough. Would i be able to privately message you to ask for some advice please? Would that be okay with you.
 
I think for me, did Chris Kavanagh saw it in real time? Looking at the incident, it might of been he was on the blind side so did not fully seen the outstretched arm and the contact.

Sons reaction was theatrical and its not right but his reaction bought a positive decision for his team so I don't blame him for doing that. Its totally different in the pre VAR days when someone pretends to be hit to get a player sent off or dives to win a penalty which with VAR you can't do anymore because you won't get away with it.

Too me the referee(and the VAR) came to the right decision but the commentators said similar incidents did not lead to free kicks so there is some inconsistency there.
 
one said:
The swing of the hand was unnecessary and wasn't as part of his natural movement. Son exaggerated the fall but that doesn't nullify the fact that there was contact to the face and it certainly wasn't negligible. If this was not in challenging for the ball the laws ask for a red card. What do we do if it was in challenging for the ball?
Players need to learn not to swing their hand/arm towards their oppoent's face. Football is a contact sport but this sort of contact, when deliberate, should not be part of it.
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Part of his natural movement?

It was also in the PGMOL announcement. This is something that might be in the handball part of the section of the laws next year. It’s not a careless foul consideration is it? Weird.
 
McTominay strikes his opponent in a careless manner. According to law 12, it's an offence. The only correct decision is to disallow the goal.
 
santa sangria said:
Part of his natural movement?

It was also in the PGMOL announcement. This is something that might be in the handball part of the section of the laws next year. It’s not a careless foul consideration is it? Weird.
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The point is, his hand had no business swinging that way. It's a strike, and a deliberate one which he shouldn't get away with. We don't need PGMOL to tell us this.
 
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