A&H

"Managing" dissent and better options

Monotone Whistle

Well-Known Member
Had a decent game on Saturday, competitive and I managed it well. But on occasion I find myself on the wrong end of a few words which I try and manage in my own way. Normally it goes ok, players seem to respond and accept if they bark at me, I bark back.

One particular player must have sworn in my direction 7 or 8 times in the game. Nothing loud or personal, just the usual f'ing about a decision, telling me I got loads wrong, etc. My default response, if at low level, is to manage through the odd word here and there, but I do often find myself calling the player over and resorting to my default phrase in the end, similar to "shut up mate, this is getting boring" or "you've been mouthing off all game, keep your mouth shut or I'll deal with it another way".

On Sat, I responded that way to this player, right in front of the bench. Nothing load or aggressive, just with a laconic wit and a hint of sarcasm The player and the manager went nuts, telling me I couldn't speak to the player like that,. etc. and I had no respect. A threat of a report to The FA was mentioned.

I just semi-laughed, looked a little incredulous and suggested that from now on rather than replying to being sworn at and belittled with a "shut up" response, I would instead allow Mr Yellow Card to do the talking, if he preferred. Of course, this was not acceptable and supposedly I should speak to players better.

Now I know in this case I should have just cautioned the player after a few comments earlier in the game, but we are asked to manage dissent and it was so low level that I just laughed it off until it just got to be too frequent. Normally I can manage it and players respond to my approach, but this guy was just a moron.

Any default phrases I should use? Anyone think telling a player to shut up is a bad thing (when done quietly)?
 
The Referee Store
'Look mate, theres only one bloke getting paid to ref this game..... and I've some bad news..... its not you!':cool:
'Look mate, does the missus drop you off just for 2 hours peace and quiet ;)?'
A good way too is to just ignore, and ignore and ignore and ignore and eventually he'll get that wound up that he'll say something that either gets him a YC or RC..... then you can ignore him from afar!!! :redcard:
 
At the point the manager jumped in I think I may have apologized, said "please try and forget what I just said. Player, to me please, what is your name? Be warned that further misconduct may result in a second yellow card and dismissal from the field of play."
And then shoved my yellow card right up his nose!
 
One particular player must have sworn in my direction 7 or 8 times in the game. Nothing loud or personal, just the usual f'ing about a decision, telling me I got loads wrong, etc.

It's hard to interpret what you are saying. This is easily read that you could have - and should have - given him 7 or 8 sanctions in the game. It's also possible to read this post in the way that you trying to justify not disciplining dissent and offensive language... What are you getting at here?
 
The occasional comment can be 'managed', but players who chirp on constantly need to,be dealt with.
I would suggest using the stepped approach....forget the quiet word though, that was your 'managed' part of it....get the skipper involved and put them on notice that if it continues then the cards will come out...and once out, they stay out.
And actually stick to it....I see referees do well up to this point, and then let the player chirp away again without bringing the cards out, or leaving it way too late before carding. If you put them on a last warning, if they start up again, the longer you leave it before producing the threatened card, the less credibility it has.
 
The occasional comment can be 'managed', but players who chirp on constantly need to,be dealt with.
I would suggest using the stepped approach....forget the quiet word though, that was your 'managed' part of it....get the skipper involved and put them on notice that if it continues then the cards will come out...and once out, they stay out.
And actually stick to it....I see referees do well up to this point, and then let the player chirp away again without bringing the cards out, or leaving it way too late before carding. If you put them on a last warning, if they start up again, the longer you leave it before producing the threatened card, the less credibility it has.
pretty much this.

It has taken a while but i have learnt a yellow card really does nip dissent in the bud.
Sounds like this guy got way too much leniency and as padfoot says. Quiet word. Boll*cking. Booking. Bath. Thats 3 opportunities to improve behaviour. If hat doesnt work they ought not to b taking part in the game.

In respect of telling players to be quiet/shut up I always feel confrontational when i use these kinds of phrases. I use give it a rest, or thats enough now. Its the same message but not as harsh maybe?
 
You have to be careful in how you deal with comments from players. The actions in the OP could see the situation escalate further than they did. If you are going to make comments like that, then consider how it would look if the player made the same comment to you. It's far better to keep such comments for face to face conversations rather than shouting on the field.

I know of some L4s and L3s who use strong language to players but only those they know reasonably well and only when they are standing close together. If the player is doing a song and dance, waving his arms around or pointing aggressively at you then that makes a dissent caution easier to sell. If the comments are snidey and made from close range, then it is better to use the stepped approach, otherwise you could be subject to the comment, "it's not all about you referee". Make a caution for dissent for obvious dissent - so either massively animated (song and dance) or prolonged where the player just won't shut up..
 
The phrase that is used a lot in senior refereeing is "set the player up for a fall". So, for low level dissent, assuming it isn't a straight caution then make sure that everyone knows any re-occurrence will see him cautioned. Speak to him publicly, use the captain, just make it clear he is in the last chance saloon.

Same as if a keeper is taking too long from goal kicks when his team is a goal up with not long left, set him up for a fall. Or a player keeps fouling people, set him up for a fall.
 
I was cast adrift after my course, never any mentor, assessment, advice, nothing! I just learned it on the hoof, old school way.
A lot of the things that are mentioned (Like RR above) I was doing without thinking about it or being told on a course for it. I'd never go in for all that malarkey, I was happy plodding away, messing up peoples weekends smiling on the inside!!! Did loads right apparently!!! Messed a few bits up too!!!
 
Yea I think you let him chirp on to many a time

1st time

That nice sarcastic quiet word

2nd then with the captain

3rd caution him for dissent
 
I was cast adrift after my course, never any mentor, assessment, advice, nothing! I just learned it on the hoof, old school way.
Oh god I am following the path of SF! I would never tell a player to shut up but would put it in a more polite way. Just protecting myself from any well you said that to me comments.
 
OK, let's clarify. I know what I'm doing, I am experienced enough and old enough to manage a game. Everything that happened was very low level, just me in earshot and the sort of thing I bat away day in, day out on the FoP. Nothing shouted from the player or me, nothing anyone else would hear, except the fact that our resultant conversation was right next to the manager, and that's the point I guess.

It was more about use of my language and whether I could/should amend this to avoid issues. I think the consensus is yes, there are better ways of doing it and a good example is "give it a rest" instead of "shut up". We all get into habits and different players react in different ways and I just needed to get clarification on what sounded to me like a normal retort was in fact unnecessary.

I never have, and never will tolerate being shouted at, sworn at or any other form of dissent where it is one of the 3 Ps. I wouldn't have got to L4 doing that, but we all know the expectation at this level is to manage players better. I've dished out far too many dissent cautions to be considered lenient, but I make the point at the toss that low level, impersonal comments directed at me will be dealt with through common sense, anything above is a card.
 
OK, let's clarify. I know what I'm doing, I am experienced enough and old enough to manage a game. Everything that happened was very low level, just me in earshot and the sort of thing I bat away day in, day out on the FoP. Nothing shouted from the player or me, nothing anyone else would hear, except the fact that our resultant conversation was right next to the manager, and that's the point I guess.

It was more about use of my language and whether I could/should amend this to avoid issues. I think the consensus is yes, there are better ways of doing it and a good example is "give it a rest" instead of "shut up". We all get into habits and different players react in different ways and I just needed to get clarification on what sounded to me like a normal retort was in fact unnecessary.

I never have, and never will tolerate being shouted at, sworn at or any other form of dissent where it is one of the 3 Ps. I wouldn't have got to L4 doing that, but we all know the expectation at this level is to manage players better. I've dished out far too many dissent cautions to be considered lenient, but I make the point at the toss that low level, impersonal comments directed at me will be dealt with through common sense, anything above is a card.

There's your problem. You're inviting the low level comments right from the start....

Try saying nothing at all, then they will have learn where your line is the hard way. Your interpretation of 'low level, impersonal' may be different to the players.....
 
From my experience over here in the states, if it is loud enough for other players to here, then give him the card. It will quell future issues. Not addressing it early on will lead to more dissent, more players who feel they have been wronged by other calls and lead to player justice/rapid increase of the match temperature. If I'm the only one who can hear it and it is a momentary heat of the moment thing, I'd have a word with him after the 2nd (a trend) and tell him knock it off or next one he is in the book (then do it). Anything public not dealt with by a card will tend to erode match control
 
The occasional comment can be 'managed', but players who chirp on constantly need to,be dealt with.
I would suggest using the stepped approach....forget the quiet word though, that was your 'managed' part of it....get the skipper involved and put them on notice that if it continues then the cards will come out...and once out, they stay out.
And actually stick to it....I see referees do well up to this point, and then let the player chirp away again without bringing the cards out, or leaving it way too late before carding. If you put them on a last warning, if they start up again, the longer you leave it before producing the threatened card, the less credibility it has.
Good advice - my biggest downfall issuing idol threats giving to many chances as a relatively new ref I need to learn quickly to handle situations like this better .
 
One player this weekend stormed away and said "the referee doesn't know what he f***ing doing". Advantage was given, didn't get one, pulled back for DFK. I called him over with an unimpressed manner.

I simply asked him "Why?". When singled out and clearly knowing he'd done wrong a sincere "I apologies ref" was given. YCR went up.

I usually loosely explain my decisions, you don't want to give them song and verse because then they argue. But it left me wondering what different incident's I might be able to use the phrase "Why?" next week and see how it goes down.

Watching the top dogs closely in the EFL Champ and PL they use as fewer words as possible. Maybe not one but I am learning less might just be more!
 
I loved it when a player spouts some crap out loud about some law interpretation that they 'think' is true.... Like 'Leave it', or 'I went for the ball' after a nasty foul and you have great pleasure in equally telling them out loud and at full volume the error of their ways in law!!!

Had one lad tell me out loud that that I couldn't possibly reverse a throw in from an incorrectly taken throw in (ball entered play) and I had to give him another chance!!! Had he been 8, I may of considered it but this was probably a 15 stone roofer!!!
 
Hi
A few options
Selective deafness. Just blank the dissenter by ignoring him.
Give it and Go. A mistake I tend to make is hang around for the dissent rather than give the call and just getting out of there. Harder to dissent with a referee some 20 yards away and moving further away.
 
Hi
A few options
Selective deafness. Just blank the dissenter by ignoring him.
Give it and Go. A mistake I tend to make is hang around for the dissent rather than give the call and just getting out of there. Harder to dissent with a referee some 20 yards away and moving further away.
More than that, dissent from a distance is an easier sell. If someone says something under their breath to you when you're stood next to them, suddenly pulling out a yellow can seem random and petty if no one else knows why. If he has to shout over 20 yards to express his frustration, then everyone and his dog knows why the yellow's come out and you'll get less argument/resentment as a result.
 
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