Open Age Man Management

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

Had my first game in about a month on Sunday, I am 9 games in to my refereeing "career" and all but one have been for my local Sunday League.

Most have gone pretty well, the odd learning experience from bad positioning or calls.

Before the game I did what I usually don't and built a bit of rapport with both teams, generally I go say hello and am polite but had a bit of a chat because it's a nice warm day and so neither were bothering with a long warm up.

I'm not sure how but the game just deteriorates in the second half, the first wasn't great with a lot of back chat from both teams. I can't really pin the moment it happens but eventually every foul I blow for I get it in the ear from both teams ("how is that a foul but the other wasn't" and "don't let him speak to you like that" etc)

I'm not a particularly physically imposing person and got surrounded a few times and felt like I just lacked authority for the whole second half despite my best efforts (including a sin bin 5 minutes in). None of the other chat really crossed the line for dissent it was just annoying really, and generally not in my face, explicit or questioning my decisions.

Just wondered if anyone had thoughts on handling things like this? Personally have hated some of the personalities I've come across reffing in South London and relishing the move to Wiltshire for next season to hopefully a less intense environment!

 

[RobOda]

the first wasn't great with a lot of back chat from both teams.

Sounds like you didn't deal with it, so it escalated.

Set your tolerance lower. You probably are letting dissent go;

None of the other chat really crossed the line for dissent it was just annoying really, and generally not in my face, explicit or questioning my decisions.

It is still backchat. That by itself can be dissent, so use your tools to deal with it. Especially in this particular game because it's run away from you. It seems like your line to cross is set so far up that they're getting away with too much and it's lost you control.

I'm not a particularly physically imposing person and got surrounded a few times

When that happens, use the whistle and your voice. There are various methods of dealing with this;

Some blast the whistle and demand everyone go away ~ anyone failing, gets cautioned.

Some put their arm up and demand the group stay away/back away, anyone going beyond your arm = cautioned.

When you got surrounded, did you caution anyone?

I would be looking to get the most aggressive out of that group, or the instigator once everyone's dispersed, so that a clear message is sent that they cannot surround me without getting punished.

It's early on in your career, so I wouldn't get too upset over this. I think, I was more or less the same when I first started, I let too much go and I got surrounded and didn't deal with it. You have to take control of the situation going forward, don't let them take control and start walking over you.

 

[GraemeS]

I don't like referees using physical stature as a key part of match control - because apart from anything else, there will always be a bigger player out there somewhere! You're not there to confront or overpower players, so getting into a shouting or intimidation match isn't a great tool to rely on, so I wouldn't worry about not being physically imposing.

2 things stand out from your post - the first is to discuss what you do when you start to feel "surrounded". Firstly consider if there is somewhere you need to go - is there an injured player who you need to check on, or an offending player who might be acting aggressively or being aggressively confronted? Prioritise that by pointing at them and then moving towards them. Player might surround you to try and intimidate you, but they're rarely stupid enough to actually physically block you from moving.

If there isn't somewhere specific you need to go then they're nothing wrong with backing off. Draw a line in the air (I tend to use a "parting the red sea" gesture), whistle if need be, take a few steps backwards and then start cautioning/sin binning anyone who crosses that imaginary line. If no one does cross, don't just leave it there - call over the captain and/or worst offender and read them the riot act, make it clear the behaviour is unacceptable and will be punished next time.

This also ties into the second thing that stood out - did you previously do anything to deal with the low-level dissent? This sounds like an ideal situation for something called the "stepped approach" that you might have heard discussed on your course? It's a really common mistake for new referees to just ignore low-level disagreement or appealing, but more experienced referees will see that as an opportunity to set boundaries: private word with the offender, delay restart and have a public word if it repeats, get the captain in if it doesn't stop or is spread around the team and then start carding if none of the above works.

None of the above requires any one particularly bad incident of dissent, it can just be a pattern of low-level backchat that you've identified and escalated appropriately. By ignoring the low-level stuff you're signalling to the players a) they can keep doing that as much as they want and b) they can try their luck taking it up a notch when they feel like they need to. Neither of which you want. So stop it early and make your own life easier going forward in the match.

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

I don't like referees using physical stature as a key part of match control - because apart from anything else, there will always be a bigger player out there somewhere! You're not there to confront or overpower players, so getting into a shouting or intimidation match isn't a great tool to rely on, so I wouldn't worry about not being physically imposing.

2 things stand out from your post - the first is to discuss what you do when you start to feel "surrounded". Firstly consider if there is somewhere you need to go - is there an injured player who you need to check on, or an offending player who might be acting aggressively or being aggressively confronted? Prioritise that by pointing at them and then moving towards them. Player might surround you to try and intimidate you, but they're rarely stupid enough to actually physically block you from moving.

Sounds like you didn't deal with it, so it escalated.

Set your tolerance lower. You probably are letting dissent go;



It is still backchat. That by itself can be dissent, so use your tools to deal with it. Especially in this particular game because it's run away from you. It seems like your line to cross is set so far up that they're getting away with too much and it's lost you control.

Thank you both Shortened your replies to save scrolling but I think leniency is one thing I lean too much on still.

Good to know it sounds like I need to work on it more! This forum has been such a great help compared to more formal support, stepped approach is new to me!

 

[Gamespoiler]

It's interesting that you are referring to being friendly before the game as if you are thinking this is the reason you lost game control? You can be friendly but still be the authoritive figure once the match starts.

You could use the pre-game coin toss to speak with the captains about dissent asking them so intervene where possible if a player is stepping out of line so that you don't need to. Most of the time, they don't but it gives you an opportunity when someone is showing dissent to stop the game, call the captain over and remind him about your pre-game chat. most times then, the captain will tell his players to keep their mouths shut, a team that disciplines each other is a great team to referee.

Above all else, remain calm, do not raise your voice and deal with dissent as a matter of fact thing. Player 5, you've shown dissent with your comments it is a 10 minute sinbin. Get name, show card and move on. Most of the challenges you are facing is other refs not using the sinbin so players will be confused from one week to the next over what is acceptable and what isn't. Managing this early on in the game will help you.

Best of luck this weekend if you have any games

 

[Anubis]

Stamp out small flames, before they become a fire

 

[lincs22]

If there isn't somewhere specific you need to go then they're nothing wrong with backing off. Draw a line in the air (I tend to use a "parting the red sea" gesture), whistle if need be, take a few steps backwards and then start cautioning/sin binning anyone who crosses that imaginary line. If no one does cross, don't just leave it there - call over the captain and/or worst offender and read them the riot act, make it clear the behaviour is unacceptable and will be punished next time.

@OnlyUseMeWhistle if you do this, it is important that you speak to the Captain. Explain why the player has crossed the line and what the action next time will be. Don't speak with the player concerned. This is effectively a last warning. You need to remember that this is not a discussion. Explain to the Captain and they get the game re-started.

 

[GraemeS]

@OnlyUseMeWhistle if you do this, it is important that you speak to the Captain. Explain why the player has crossed the line and what the action next time will be. Don't speak with the player concerned. This is effectively a last warning. You need to remember that this is not a discussion. Explain to the Captain and they get the game re-started.

I don't disagree with that, but I always worry when explaining the stepped system that it can easily lock new referees into following it too rigidly. While your post isn't wrong, it might give a new referee the impression that they always need to go through the "captain" step before issuing a dissent/PI caution, where in reality it's perfectly OK to give the dissent card at any point regardless of how may of the steps you've followed.

Similarly, while your point about not having the player over is fair, I don't agree it's the only possible way to do this. If it's a team issue then sure, no reason to have anyone else there. But if a particular player is causing you a problem, I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with having them there as well to minimise any possible miscommunication. And also, if they do start chirping up, it's quite satisfying to be able to go "Captain, this is what I'm talking to you about and what you need to get on top of"!

 

[Hendo]

I don't disagree with that, but I always worry when explaining the stepped system that it can easily lock new referees into following it too rigidly. While your post isn't wrong, it might give a new referee the impression that they always need to go through the "captain" step before issuing a dissent/PI caution, where in reality it's perfectly OK to give the dissent card at any point regardless of how may of the steps you've followed.

Exactly this, there are some instances where not being proactive with cards in favour of talking to captains can actually be detrimental. In one of my games this weekend, barely 10mins played, blue striker scuffs a volley into the ground, which then bounces up hitting a team-mates hand. This team-mate was stood about three yards away, and had turned his back expecting a thunderbolt to fly past him, so knew nothing about it until it hit his hand, which was by his side.

This then took all remaining power out of the shot which ran harmlessly through to the keeper, accompanied by a plethora of shouts for handball by the reds. I've waved these off with no real complaints and started jogging back up field, anticipating the keeper to punt the ball forward, he however had other ideas! He promptly slammed the ball into the ground and screamed "How the F is that not handball!!"

Completely unnecessary and no way I was taking the stepped approach, IDFK in the penalty area with a sin bin to boot, red captain highly unimpressed that I didn't warn him first and give him another opportunity, but personally, had I let that go I feel I would have made a rod for my own back for the next 80mins or so.

Fortunately, the resultant free kick was hoofed over the bar, and once the keeper was back from his enforced rest the whole thing was forgotten about fairly quickly.

 

[santa sangria]

How to identify and control low level dissent?

You've highlighted yourself how, by taking a new tone with the players (before the match), it was harder for you to process where your tolerance was and if/when players went over the line.

There's loads of great advice already. What stood out for me was that coziness with the players: rapport, complimenting, a quick word on the run, reminders... these are all tools for you to use as and when - and very deliberately until it becomes second nature. Maybe it's also part of you uncovering your personality as a ref.

The "not physically imposing" is something you can counter, with basic body language, confidence, use of the whistle, keeping good proximity to players. You are imposing when you make great decisions!

 

[Viridis1886]

I like to include the captains. Last Friday had a tough game with a number of 'characters'. Had to have a quiet word with yellow 17 to warn him of low level dissent and to pack it in. Spoke to the capt to warn him about subsequent behaviour and the C2 risk. Two minutes later the captain is in the bin

 

[Murri O]

Disappointed to read about refs getting surrounded. It doesn't happen so much in the league I do here (in Oz) but I'd hate it to start to become a thing. The sooner the bigger leagues do something about it the better because the peanuts that play in the lower levels think that if it's ok on the telly then it's ok in the suburban park.

As for dissent as part of my pre match talk to the players I'll say:

'I'll explain my decisions to you if I can (and I want to) but we're not getting into a conversation. Have a bit of a whinge if you want but don't go on with it or * I'll have to deal with it *.'

'Anyone questioning every decision will also be dealt with.' I say that with a bit of a smile and it seems to go over ok/well.

I never say * will be carded * because sure as eggs some smart arse will say 'but you said' if you don't.

Then again I've read here that other blokes just say 'I'm the one with the whistle. What do you want heads or tails?'

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

Disappointed to read about refs getting surrounded. It doesn't happen so much in the league I do here (in Oz) but I'd hate it to start to become a thing. The sooner the bigger leagues do something about it the better because the peanuts that play in the lower levels think that if it's ok on the telly then it's ok in the suburban park.

Yeah it was actually pretty scary because two players were arguing with each other as well as me, my league would throw out anyone who assaulted a ref but I didn't want to be caught between a fight

 

[Bombedcoma]

Some good replies here and I will be taking some bits on myself. I too am someone that has moved from a dense are to a more rural area (Devon). After doing a season here I no longer get the 'you're new' comments as it can be a small place. The only thing I would add is don't forget the value of learning a name... By this I mean if you notice someone who you feel may start to give you trouble later on in the game, you can build rapport during that match too. That way he/she starts to see you as a person and not just some guy in black and you can use this to diffuse situations.

For example if I see someone potentially winding up and about go for a challenge... 'Joe.... nothing silly'. Generally we know that captains names from the toss. So I may say something like 'if you act the same way to me as last time I am sure it will be a good game'. (Assuming they did't give you any trouble).

you could write a doctoral thesis on rapport building so don't over complicate it. I am generally weak in this area myself and as a result sometimes have to reply on my presence/voice to get me through (I have a loud voice and over 14 stone). I know plenty of small/slim guys and girl refs who are much better at rapport building than me so I do not feel being imposing is something to get worked up about. In essence, relax, enjoy it and find what works for you. Don't be afraid to experiment.

 

[Will_A]

I generally make an effort to remember the name of 3/4 players through the spine of each team.
You can usually figure out who’s playing where from the numbers/order on the team sheet and this always helps me build rapport.

As a player I always responded better to a referee using my name rather than just shouting “come here please player!”

It helps that I have a knack for names and faces so I usually remember almost everyone but even knowing a few names can help. I tend to pick a CB, CM and a striker as a minimum and then make sure both skippers know my name rather than just calling me Ref.

This helps break down a basic barrier and *can* calm some situations down along with a smile and empathetic approach.

*EDIT*
I’m also 5’8” on tiptoes and built like a toothpick so physical presence isn’t really an option for me!

 

[JamesL]

I generally make an effort to remember the name of 3/4 players through the spine of each team.
You can usually figure out who’s playing where from the numbers/order on the team sheet and this always helps me build rapport.

As a player I always responded better to a referee using my name rather than just shouting “come here please player!”

It helps that I have a knack for names and faces so I usually remember almost everyone but even knowing a few names can help. I tend to pick a CB, CM and a striker as a minimum and then make sure both skippers know my name rather than just calling me Ref.

This helps break down a basic barrier and *can* calm some situations down along with a smile and empathetic approach.

Find this works well for me too. I'm good at remembering skippers and players I have booked which helps when matey says oh you know his name and I say yes, only because he has found his way into my notebook in the past, would you like to give me your name? With a smile of course

 

[refeire]

Think of the world famous refs, how many of them are physically imposing? Not a whole lot. Mike Dean, Oliver, even Collina, yes he was tall with bulging eyes but he had twigs for arms and was like a skeleton, yet managed to exert total control over games.

You actually don't want to be too big as a referee cos it makes the cardio/fitness element that bit more difficult.

This may be a good thing because it makes you find other ways to control players and coaches, far more effective ways too.

 

[refeire]

Just to add, confidence is absolutely everything. You may not always know what you are doing, the trick is to LOOK like you know what you are doing. These people we ref haven't the slightest clue of the LOTG, sell sell sell, you sell with confidence. I learned all this on this lovely forum. I carried it into my game and it has worked wonders, even doing over 35s! It's amazing how a quick mention of a law or something shuts them up very quickly.

 

[santa sangria]

Find this works well for me too. I'm good at remembering skippers and players I have booked which helps when matey says oh you know his name and I say yes, only because he has found his way into my notebook in the past, would you like to give me your name? With a smile of course

I got great advice from a top flight AR, who always notes the goalkeepers' names.
It makes those annoying moments - like a second ball, GK close to handling outside, GK dawdling at ball retrieval... all that... so much easier when you shout the guy's name, the GK reacts must faster