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Mainz v Freiburg. Another VAR thread

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JamesL said:
I thought a decision could not be changed once the end of the half had been signalled?
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Law 5: The referee may not change a decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or terminated the match.


Now you could technically say the referee left the field of play and entered the technical area, but the purpose of that law is that the ref cannot go into the changing rooms and then change a decision. While it was a very strange situation, it was a fully legal use of VAR and justified in the LOTG.
 
Ah yeh. Fair point. Havent seen the video of it but surely if he was going to review it he should have kept the teams out on FOP until review complete.
 
JamesL said:
Ah yeh. Fair point. Havent seen the video of it but surely if he was going to review it he should have kept the teams out on FOP until review complete.
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Because pretty much everyone was off the pitch by the time VAR informed the ref that something was up. This was literally the last thing that happened before halftime. The VAR informed the ref within about 30 seconds that a clear error was made. It just happened to be that those 30 seconds consisted of the half time whistle and most of the players making it off the pitch.

Here's the video while it's still up.

https://streamable.com/8znol
 
Sheffields Finest said:
What an absolute Dogs dinner!!! Scrap it NOW.....
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Why? Within 30 seconds the VAR informed the ref that something was wrong. The ref looked at the monitor and agreed and correctly remembered that the LOTG allowed the PK to be given. Don't blame the system because a crazy situation that no one considered happened.
 
Is that even a deliberate handball? I guess they get given for that but still...
 
cwyeary said:
Why? Within 30 seconds the VAR informed the ref that something was wrong. The ref looked at the monitor and agreed and correctly remembered that the LOTG allowed the PK to be given. Don't blame the system because a crazy situation that no one considered happened.
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It took a lot longer than 30 seconds, the VAR should be alerting the referee to that well before anyone has left the pitch, let alone everyone. Surely the VAR should be saying straight away, hang on referee there might be a problem.
 
cwyeary said:
Why? Within 30 seconds the VAR informed the ref that something was wrong. The ref looked at the monitor and agreed and correctly remembered that the LOTG allowed the PK to be given. Don't blame the system because a crazy situation that no one considered happened.
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LOL It was 2 mins at least before the ref actually got the message. And then for a debatable ball to hand (not the ideal position but the guy nearly scored an own goal with his hand FFS!). It was 6 and a half mins by the time they took the kick.

Just embarrassing.
 
RustyRef said:
It took a lot longer than 30 seconds, the VAR should be alerting the referee to that well before anyone has left the pitch, let alone everyone. Surely the VAR should be saying straight away, hang on referee there might be a problem.
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This concept is actually provisioned in the handbook and called "delay the restart". In this case the name is misleading but the concept is the all the same at half/full time. Referee should have known VAR may need time to check the incident and/or VAR should have alerted him. I am afraid this was an error by officials not the system.

1523924719589.png

Also in my VAR process map
https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/var-process-map.11389/#post-109930
 
santa sangria said:
LOL It was 2 mins at least before the ref actually got the message. And then for a debatable ball to hand (not the ideal position but the guy nearly scored an own goal with his hand FFS!). It was 6 and a half mins by the time they took the kick.

Just embarrassing.
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Using these two clips which show the end of the first half to the player handing the ball to the referee to the referee stopping at the touchline, I used a timer to get 40 seconds between the actual handling occurring and the officials showing the first signs that the VAR is saying something to them.

But lets not let facts get in the way of a VAR bashing story.

https://www.clippituser.tv/c/edpvrw

https://streamable.com/8znol

And this is 100% a handling offense. I'm shocked a referee would be debating this. If you don't want to call it at U12 then don't, but at the top levels it's not even debatable.
 
There's actually a specific section of the VAR protocol that deals with this scenario:

IMG_20180417_154743.png
Again, it didn't seem as if these instructions were followed. The only clips I could find that were still viewable don't show if the referee had left the field before the VAR informed him an incident needed reviewing but there was one that stopped when he was only a couple of steps away from the touchline and showing no signs of being aware that anything was in the offing. Only a few players were left on the field at that point.

It seems to me that if the referee had actually crossed the touchline before the VAR contacted him, the review should not have happened. However, I can't say whether that was in fact the case from the clips I've seen.
 
Work in progress still, with two distinct ways of looking at it.

1: These issues are a positive; they can now be tackled properly and ironed out to avoid them and the "what if?" in the future.

2: These are manna from heaven for those who oppose the video referee entirely, and boost their agenda to discredit it forever. :p
 
The referee does cross the line. But It is not clear if that was in an attempt to stop the side who had mostly left by the point he was told.
 
Don't panic, FIFA will steer us to calmer waters. With VAR, referee decision-making was "almost perfect", Infantino said (when reviewing a sample of 1000 games)
 
What a joke. first, how did the ref and AR miss it?
Most VAR problems come from this 'always working in the background' approach. Better to have it at ref request only.

Dismal failure of the process here.
RobOda said:
Is that even a deliberate handball? I guess they get given for that but still...
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Why do you think it's not?
The arm is sticking right out to the side. No reason to be there except to handle the ball
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
What a joke. first, how did the ref and AR miss it?
Most VAR problems come from this 'always working in the background' approach. Better to have it at ref request only.

Dismal failure of the process here.

Why do you think it's not?
The arm is sticking right out to the side. No reason to be there except to handle the ball
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I don't agree. He's in motion. And it's ball to hand. It's daft. But I think there's a good argument - maybe not a great one - that it's not deliberate.

It certainly is a pen under the new UEFA guidelines shown in "that" UEFA video - if that is something that will come into force - but based on the LotG... I think there's enough to leave it and class it as not a clear an obvious mistake... which would have been the smart thing to do, no?
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Why do you think it's not?
The arm is sticking right out to the side. No reason to be there except to handle the ball
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Heh, there was a topic a week or so back about exactly this, where I said something along the lines of what you've said. And it seemed to have half of the forum in agreement/disagreement.

I agree it is a handball, I'm just not sold it is a deliberate handball.
 
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