A&H

Luton V Swansea

JamesL

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Level 3 Referee

Not sure I am comfortable with a yellow card here.
Yes the Swansea player is delaying restart. Yes, the Luton players "eyes are on the ball"
But for me you 1) need to have an awareness of where your opponents are and 2) if this isn't kicking your opponent with excessive force then I'm not sure what is.

Anyone think the Luton lad knows what he is doing?
 
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I really am a bit torn. The Swansea player had already started the motion to kick the ball when the Luton player steps in front of it. He then kicks the ball away and leaves his foot exactly where the ball would have been. You really have to ask what he thought he was doing.

The problem is you are guessing the intentions of the Swansea player, I think red card here would be an incredibly difficult sell when it is the actions of the opponent that has caused the whole thing.
 
I really am a bit torn. The Swansea player had already started the motion to kick the ball when the Luton player steps in front of it. He then kicks the ball away and leaves his foot exactly where the ball would have been. You really have to ask what he thought he was doing.

The problem is you are guessing the intentions of the Swansea player, I think red card here would be an incredibly difficult sell when it is the actions of the opponent that has caused the whole thing.
Which is why i thought it was worth sharing and discussing here.
I'm not saying red due to intention. Just a throw out question really.
And it's a prime example of where wording of law can tie you up in a sticky. You kick an opponent in any other circumstance with that level of force ie and you are gone. No questions asked. Excessive force sold easy peasy.
As you rightly say, what is the Swansea player doing putting himself in that position? All the same though, can we then overlook such a forceful kick...
 
Which is why i thought it was worth sharing and discussing here.
I'm not saying red due to intention. Just a throw out question really.
And it's a prime example of where wording of law can tie you up in a sticky. You kick an opponent in any other circumstance with that level of force ie and you are gone. No questions asked. Excessive force sold easy peasy.
As you rightly say, what is the Swansea player doing putting himself in that position? All the same though, can we then overlook such a forceful kick...

Don't disagree with any of that, and this is why it is difficult to say without knowing the build up to it. What has led to the free kick, was there any niggle between the players before, etc. At that level you also have the "what the game expects" argument, and the only group of people expecting a red there would be referees. Almost all of the other football community would be saying tough luck to the Luton player for being so stupid.

Using a counter argument, let's say a striker dangles a leg in front of a keeper as he drop kicks. He is going to get clattered with a lot of force, but he has put himself in that position. Yes, law says that he can't block the keeper, but it also says you have to be 10 yards away at a free kick. I'm not really sure there will be a right or wrong answer here.
 
I've got to say, my view is that red knows precisely what the risks are here. He can see white is coming to like the ball away ad he follows through with a forceful kick anyway. Even if he has kicked the ball he still would have followed through into white.

These problems arise, though, when we don't appropriately sanction failing to respect the required distance.

Red for red, yellow for white.

If I copped out and went yellow for red, he would likely have been looking at a very much reduced bar for a second yellow. May even have got it immediately after the first for dissent 😅
 
Its a red card let's be honest. But because white has caused the issue I think everyone at the ground is expecting a yellow. You'll get pelters no matter which way you go here.

But if I have to stick my neck on the line I'm going red. Would I give red in the heat of the moment? Not sure, sometimes yes and sometimes no! That's the thing about refereeing, we can have the same situation and give different decisions based on a multitude of factors
 
red

regardless of the position the white player has put himself in, he has been wiped out, booted, in an act of brutality.

should he be there? no.
but standing in an illegal position does not negate the act of violence which followed.


even the body language of the other red player is saying to me, ' take that you c*** "
 
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Obvious red for me, plus yellow to the white. If not I think there’s a riot in a grassroots game. I think I can sell that.

Unusual though, SFP or VC? Is the ball in play? Is it a challenge for the ball? No. VC then?
 
Obvious red for me, plus yellow to the white. If not I think there’s a riot in a grassroots game. I think I can sell that.

Unusual though, SFP or VC? Is the ball in play? Is it a challenge for the ball? No. VC then?
The ball’s dead because it’s a free kick restart which hasn’t yet been taken. That puts us on the VC path, doesn’t it?
 
I’ve seen examples of two players lunging at each other and both getting reds, even after one has received lengthy treatment and had a free kick awarded in their favour.
The offences are quite clear and I wouldn’t have any qualms about a yellow and a red and I do feel as though that would be the correct decision. Two yellows would be sending out a mixed message and probably a worse option that the single yellow.
 
I've given a yellow each way for something similar in one of my matches, but that was for a push. It also happened to be the pusher's second yellow in that case.

But here I think the force involved is dangerous and I don't buy for a second that he somehow hasn't seen the 6ft tall opponent who's walking exactly where the ball is. He's used it as a cheap excuse to kick the opponent and even though the Swansea player does deserve to be booked, I'd still be going straight red for the Luton player as well.
 
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I think this is one that might get different outcomes at grass roots to in the pro game. I suspect the majority of pro referees wouldn't send off here, as I said before few outside of the refereeing community will think it should be red. Technically it can't really be a yellow card, it is either red or nothing as in penalising him you are saying it was intentional.
 
I am surprised that it wasn't RED. Technically the ball is played at the point of impact with White, so it would be SFP.

However, highly difficult sell to the crowd.
 
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I am surprised that it wasn't RED. Technically the ball is played at the point of impact with White, so it would be SFP.

However, highly difficult sell to the crowd.
It's not in play though is it as its only in play once kicked and moved by a team whose restart it is.
A ball that is not in play cannot be challenged for, thus it's VC for me.
 
I think this is one that might get different outcomes at grass roots to in the pro game. I suspect the majority of pro referees wouldn't send off here, as I said before few outside of the refereeing community will think it should be red. Technically it can't really be a yellow card, it is either red or nothing as in penalising him you are saying it was intentional.
Totally disagree that it can't be yellow. Simple USB towards an opponent.

That said, I do lean toward the "pure" answer being a send off here. At the level I do, I'm sending off wihtout a second thought. But the "game expects" mantra raises the question of whether at the professional level, when the opponent is being a first class doofus, anything besides matching yellows is expected.
 
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