Ref4Me

Level 4 Observer Reports

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Not wishing to waste any time, my first game of the season was observed last night
Question being, what represents an excellent, good, average, pants or 'give the game up' score?

Edit: could be a few days 'til I get the report back, but naturally curious in advance
 
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JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Not wishing to waste any time, my first game of the season was observed last night
Question being, what represents an excellent, good, average, pants or 'give the game up' score?

Edit: could be a few days 'til I get the report back, but naturally curious in advance
Average was around 71.7 but that will vary by pool so not sure how that compares on a national scale.

Anything over 72 is Good. 72.5 great. 73+ excellent. I'd be worried at anything under 70.5. The average Vs the top banding had very little in it so one great Mark can launch you into the mix. My marks varied between 71.4 the lowest and 72.9 the highest.

Again stress that regional variations apply 😁

How did you find the game? How did the debrief go? (which was obviously done virtually 😉)
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Average was around 71.7 but that will vary by pool so not sure how that compares on a national scale.

Anything over 72 is Good. 72.5 great. 73+ excellent. I'd be worried at anything under 70.5. as you can see the average Vs the top banding was very little in it so one great Mark can launch your into the mix. My marks varied between 71.4 the lowest and 72.9 the highest.

How did you find the game? How did the debrief go? (which was obviously done virtually 😉)
Debrief was done 'virtually' straight after the game :oops:
Home Team won 1 - 0
No massive KMI's, but the game was challenging; the away team a headache on an unrelenting basis. 6 cautions overall. Defo needed Refereeing
Did quite well to end 11v11 with 10 still in the TA's!
Basically, Mr O thought 'The Team' put in a very competent showing. My AR's were very good
P&M could've been better. In all honesty, I was struggling with back pain throughout and couldn't sprint flat out. Time Management went out the window before KO and the warm-up and stuff was shoddy. Daft really. But the game itself was a very solid effort with a decent crowds and plenty of incident

On the subject of P&M, Mr O wasn't happy with my positioning on GKs. We were all told at the L4 Training Day to stay Central, but Mr O missed the memo and wanted me out wide. Typical nonsense. Personally, I think both positions have their merits and in future I'll go where I want instead of being pigeon holed by Coaches or Observers
 
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JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Debrief was done 'virtually' straight after the game :oops:
Home Team won 1 - 0
No massive KMI's, but the game was challenging; the away team a headache on an unrelenting basis. 6 cautions overall. Defo needed Refereeing
Did quite well to end 11v11 with 10 still in the TA's!
Basically, Mr O thought 'The Team' put in a very competent showing. My AR's were very good
P&M could've been better. In all honesty, I was struggling with back pain throughout and couldn't sprint flat out. Time Management went out the window before KO and the warm-up and stuff was shoddy. Daft really. But the game itself was a very solid effort with a decent crowds and plenty of incident

On the subject of P&M, Mr O wasn't happy with my positioning on GKs. We were all told at the L4 Training Day to stay Central, but Mr O missed the memo and wanted me out wide. Typical nonsense. Personally, I think both positions have their merits and in future I'll go where I want instead of being pigeon holed by Coaches or Observers
Sounds like a good game for you.

The pre match stuff is a skill to get timings right. Really have to take charge of that, if you have a chatty observer or ARs that like a gas and not getting ready, it can send things wayward and before you know it there 20mins to kick off and you're only just out for warmup.

If the only development advice is GK positioning he has had to look hard for something... I actually change it up, sometimes central sometimes wide... Sometimes it pays to have a look at the jostling from both sides.
 

N416405

Waterman
Level 5 Referee
Debrief was done 'virtually' straight after the game :oops:
Home Team won 1 - 0
No massive KMI's, but the game was challenging; the away team a headache on an unrelenting basis. 6 cautions overall. Defo needed Refereeing
Did quite well to end 11v11 with 10 still in the TA's!
Basically, Mr O thought 'The Team' put in a very competent showing. My AR's were very good
P&M could've been better. In all honesty, I was struggling with back pain throughout and couldn't sprint flat out. Time Management went out the window before KO and the warm-up and stuff was shoddy. Daft really. But the game itself was a very solid effort with a decent crowds and plenty of incident

On the subject of P&M, Mr O wasn't happy with my positioning on GKs. We were all told at the L4 Training Day to stay Central, but Mr O missed the memo and wanted me out wide. Typical nonsense. Personally, I think both positions have their merits and in future I'll go where I want instead of being pigeon holed by Coaches or Observers
I just don't get the "stay wide" instruction, it makes no sense to me to deliberately take a position that "on average" puts you out of position and can let subsequent play "trap you" out wide.
"On average" I favour the intersection of the centre circle with the halfway line looking along the halfway line at the larger part of the field, as a starting position.
 

higdawgy

New Member
Level 2 Referee
GK positioning depends on the keeper and where he puts the ball, something that you need to adjust during the match.
It may be different for each keeper. I don't think there should be a blanket instruction for every occasion.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
I just don't get the "stay wide" instruction, it makes no sense to me to deliberately take a position that "on average" puts you out of position and can let subsequent play "trap you" out wide.
"On average" I favour the intersection of the centre circle with the halfway line looking along the halfway line at the larger part of the field, as a starting position.
In my game on Tuesday, the Goalkeepers kicks were long (every time) and clearing the half way line with ease. By always staying central, I was slow to respond to two offside flags as I had my back to the AR
Personally, I don't think one-size fits all and I'll vary my position in future as I see fit. I don't think it's a big deal either way, it's just something for coaches and FA Core to 'overthink'. I understand your point about being left out of position by getting wide
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Yeah, it really depends on the game. That traditional "left wing" position is terrible if they always play short for example, as you're then in essentially the same position as your AR but further down the field.

I get the idea of "if in doubt, edge left", but I've seen referees take themselves fully off the pitch in order to make sure they are on the "correct" side of a hypothetical drop zone. If the kick then goes longer or shorter than you expect, or they kick it crossfield to the other side, or decide to play short to a defender, or a long kick is scuffed, or if it's immediately headed back where it came from by a defender - that position is awful when compared to the "sin" of just hovering in the centre circle to see what happens.

And the one in 10 time where the ball is kicked where it's expected and then flicked on down that wing as expected? And assuming it doesn't then dribble out or go straight through to the keeper? Yes, being off the side is a 10/10 position - but following from the middle is still 8/10 pretty good, and it doesn't also put you in a 1/10 position if anything "unexpected" (read "actually quite likely") happens. It's just very outdated thinking.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
In my game on Tuesday, the Goalkeepers kicks were long (every time) and clearing the half way line with ease. By always staying central, I was slow to respond to two offside flags as I had my back to the AR
Personally, I don't think one-size fits all and I'll vary my position in future as I see fit. I don't think it's a big deal either way, it's just something for coaches and FA Core to 'overthink'. I understand your point about being left out of position by getting wide
You are right about one size fits all.

How central are we talking? Whatever position we take up, we ideally want play between us an the active AR. In cases of keeper release.or GKs this is usually the AR in the opposite end of the pitch to the GK.

Our position has to be flexible because if it looks like a short GK ie players in the box waiting to receive you have to be around that area. We dont just run to the same position at ever restart.

We should view what the likely distance and direction is and take a position to suit.

That maybe centralish near to the box, that may be at the intersection of the centre circle and the halfway line, or in line with thatbdistance of kicker depending or it might be out wide just off the pitch.

Teams are rarely any good at hiding their intentions from restarts which should help us find the most suitable position
 

Will_A

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
I’ve always been taught by coaches and CORE to stay left wing for GK’s.

However on the recent development day for new L4’s at Warwick they specifically mentioned positioning at GK’s where the drop zone is clearly going to left wing.

We were all then told in this instance to go far side of the centre circle (back to AR) and get a view from there. The logic was that the priority should be not being in the way than a slightly delayed reaction to a flag (from a flick on).

I’ve tried it in pre season and it does feel like a better position in some circumstances but I’ll be interested to see what my first observer this season says!
 

Brian Hamilton

RefChat Addict
Observer/Tutor
Sounds like a good game for you.

The pre match stuff is a skill to get timings right. Really have to take charge of that, if you have a chatty observer or ARs that like a gas and not getting ready, it can send things wayward and before you know it there 20mins to kick off and you're only just out for warmup.

If the only development advice is GK positioning he has had to look hard for something... I actually change it up, sometimes central sometimes wide... Sometimes it pays to have a look at the jostling from both sides.
Also if he just "doesn't like it" without offering where it impacted on your game, it should just be an advisory note rather than a mark stealer.
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
On the subject of P&M, Mr O wasn't happy with my positioning on GKs. We were all told at the L4 Training Day to stay Central, but Mr O missed the memo and wanted me out wide. Typical nonsense. Personally, I think both positions have their merits and in future I'll go where I want instead of being pigeon holed by Coaches or Observers
The most important thing is to get a credible view of the dropping zone. This may be wider, then closing in once the direction of the ball is known; otherwise centrally can be suitable if there is certainty of where they kick to.

To get the best answer, movement towards the action area to critical
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Debrief was done 'virtually' straight after the game :oops:
Home Team won 1 - 0
No massive KMI's, but the game was challenging; the away team a headache on an unrelenting basis. 6 cautions overall. Defo needed Refereeing
Did quite well to end 11v11 with 10 still in the TA's!
Basically, Mr O thought 'The Team' put in a very competent showing. My AR's were very good
P&M could've been better. In all honesty, I was struggling with back pain throughout and couldn't sprint flat out. Time Management went out the window before KO and the warm-up and stuff was shoddy. Daft really. But the game itself was a very solid effort with a decent crowds and plenty of incident

On the subject of P&M, Mr O wasn't happy with my positioning on GKs. We were all told at the L4 Training Day to stay Central, but Mr O missed the memo and wanted me out wide. Typical nonsense. Personally, I think both positions have their merits and in future I'll go where I want instead of being pigeon holed by Coaches or Observers
Out of interest - league game or friendly?
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Average was around 71.7 but that will vary by pool so not sure how that compares on a national scale.

Anything over 72 is Good. 72.5 great. 73+ excellent. I'd be worried at anything under 70.5. The average Vs the top banding had very little in it so one great Mark can launch you into the mix. My marks varied between 71.4 the lowest and 72.9 the highest.

Again stress that regional variations apply 😁

How did you find the game? How did the debrief go? (which was obviously done virtually 😉)
Assuming the Observer Training Manual is still the same as the one in the Resources Section, it does look challenging to get a score over 72.0
Not to mention 72.5 or 73+
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Onto another Question. What can I expect from the Statistics section in MOAS? Bit of a general question, I can't really predetermine what to expect. How often rankings update, do Club Marks show up? Anything else?
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Onto another Question. What can I expect from the Statistics section in MOAS? Bit of a general question, I can't really predetermine what to expect. How often rankings update, do Club Marks show up? Anything else?
No club marks at level 4 in MOAS.
You will get a live merit table position/ out of how many for observers and the average mark on the pool.
The table updates 24hourly. So you will find you don't update until a day after your report is in but also position may change a day later based on other referees performance.

"To – Step 5/6 Referees



MOAS Update – Live Merit Table Data – Level 4



Over the past few months the refereeing department has been working with MOAS developers to increase transparency of performance data for match officials working across the semi-professional game.



We are therefore pleased to confirm Step 5/6 referees are now able to view observer performance data for the marking season 2020-2022.



Instead of having to wait for the compilation of the quarterly merit table, this new functionality will provide you with your position for the following merit tables:



  • Observer merit table


You will be able to access data relating to your role by selecting the “Statistics” tab on your dashboard.



Merit Table positions will continue to be communicated by email from your Step 5/6 league/pool on a quarterly basis.



Please be aware or the following:



  • The merit tables are calculated from 1 August 2020 inclusive of competitions which comprise the respective leagues/pools. This will include FA Cup and Vase appointments.
  • Referees who operate across more than one Step 5/6 league/pool will have access to tabs indicating their observer merit table position on the respective lists.
  • For referees who operate across more than one list, FA Cup and Vase performance data will be included within an official’s primary league/pool allocation to avoid data duplication.
  • These merit tables are recalculated overnight following submissions made within the previous 24 hours so data entered will not result in an immediate recalculation.
  • This is a live system. Consequently an individual’s merit table position can and will be impacted by performances and data submitted completely unrelated to any fixture you have officiated. This will include (but is not limited to) the completion and entry following appeals and moderations.
  • The overall number of officials on the respective merit table will also change as and when match officials complete their first game, receive an observation, resign or are new to the list.
  • You will only be able to access data relating to your performances and your position on the observer merit tables.
  • Club data will not appear as club data is not captured through MOAS across all leagues/pools.
  • At the moment the overall Level 4 assistant merit table data will not appear for those operating in a dual role at this time. This functionality will be introduced early in the new year.


If you have any question in respect of the above please email FAcompreferee@TheFA.com."
 

Quarryref

Active Member
Level 3 Referee
In my game on Tuesday, the Goalkeepers kicks were long (every time) and clearing the half way line with ease. By always staying central, I was slow to respond to two offside flags as I had my back to the AR
Personally, I don't think one-size fits all and I'll vary my position in future as I see fit. I don't think it's a big deal either way, it's just something for coaches and FA Core to 'overthink'. I understand your point about being left out of position by getting wide
I think one size not fitting all is correct.

Some keepers will (can) kick it all day into the same area, in which case it's possible to pick a preferred spot with more confidence. I personally like a wide view if it's on offer but other considerations for me are :

  • the wind
  • if the ball's consistently landing in the same spot, like a corner it's a good idea to think about varying it up a bit to get a different angle (or even just to be seen to be doing that)
  • if the benches are challenging, picking the wide angle and standing in front of them is not the best idea - just inviting trouble
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
No club marks at level 4 in MOAS.
You will get a live merit table position/ out of how many for observers and the average mark on the pool.
The table updates 24hourly. So you will find you don't update until a day after your report is in but also position may change a day later based on other referees performance.

"To – Step 5/6 Referees



MOAS Update – Live Merit Table Data – Level 4



Over the past few months the refereeing department has been working with MOAS developers to increase transparency of performance data for match officials working across the semi-professional game.



We are therefore pleased to confirm Step 5/6 referees are now able to view observer performance data for the marking season 2020-2022.



Instead of having to wait for the compilation of the quarterly merit table, this new functionality will provide you with your position for the following merit tables:



  • Observer merit table


You will be able to access data relating to your role by selecting the “Statistics” tab on your dashboard.



Merit Table positions will continue to be communicated by email from your Step 5/6 league/pool on a quarterly basis.



Please be aware or the following:



  • The merit tables are calculated from 1 August 2020 inclusive of competitions which comprise the respective leagues/pools. This will include FA Cup and Vase appointments.
  • Referees who operate across more than one Step 5/6 league/pool will have access to tabs indicating their observer merit table position on the respective lists.
  • For referees who operate across more than one list, FA Cup and Vase performance data will be included within an official’s primary league/pool allocation to avoid data duplication.
  • These merit tables are recalculated overnight following submissions made within the previous 24 hours so data entered will not result in an immediate recalculation.
  • This is a live system. Consequently an individual’s merit table position can and will be impacted by performances and data submitted completely unrelated to any fixture you have officiated. This will include (but is not limited to) the completion and entry following appeals and moderations.
  • The overall number of officials on the respective merit table will also change as and when match officials complete their first game, receive an observation, resign or are new to the list.
  • You will only be able to access data relating to your performances and your position on the observer merit tables.
  • Club data will not appear as club data is not captured through MOAS across all leagues/pools.
  • At the moment the overall Level 4 assistant merit table data will not appear for those operating in a dual role at this time. This functionality will be introduced early in the new year.


If you have any question in respect of the above please email FAcompreferee@TheFA.com."
Any tips on;
'how not to keep checking the daily ranking stat'?
 
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