Ref4Me

Lesson learnt!

MattTheRef

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Mistake in my fixture last night. Rectified okay?

Backstory. I am a 6-5 candidate, all but guaranteed 5 and am hoping to be 5-4 next season. I was appointed to a fixture on the line for yesterday evening, where the middles are for 5s. On the day of the game the referee had to drop out. I emailed to ask if I could take the middle which I got given. I haven't had neutrals in over 2 years so was aware I would be sloppy at times leading into the game.

Late in the 2nd half I awarded a penalty for handball. I rushed the decision without looking towards my AR. It was one of those within 2 seconds I knew I had got it wrong.

I consulted with the AR who said from his angle it clearly didn't touch the hand and he had been shaking his head. I decided to reverse my decision and award a drop ball to the keeper.

I (lied) explained to the players that I had glanced towards the AR and thought he had nodded, when in fact he was shaking his head. I held my hands up and said it was my error. This was accepted by all of them, including the attacking team.

Lesson learnt for me last night. Use my ARs and slow my decisions down. I am so used to having CARs that I am too quick with my decisions in some instances.

Thankfully that was the only real talking point and the rest of the game went well.
 
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one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
A little white lie to sell a correct decision doesn't hurt anyone.

I think the lesson learnt should be don't rush decisions when thinking time is required. If you called a handball which in fact wasn't then it's clear that decision needed thinking time.

Make decisions slow, in general, makes them harder to sell. So quick decisions have their place.
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
Don't worry it happens to the best as well. Local cup final, refereed by ex EFL assistant, gave a clear penalty. However, AR flagging for offside earlier in play - completely missed, as we don't use AR for our normal league matches, so out of practice.
 

wazztie16

Level 7 Referee
Level 7 Referee
Glad you got it sorted, I had a cup final line recently, young ref in the middle, play is on the opposite side of the pitch to me so I have a side on view to the play, ref had a behind view.

Keeper comes out, clatters into attacker for a penalty with no play of the ball, clear as day to me.

Really bad timing as I waited a couple of seconds to see if the ref immediately waved it away, nothing forthcoming so I start flagging for the pen at which point ref cuts the grass...

Caused all sorts of issues as you can imagine!

Spoke to the ref and other ar after the game and other ar agreed from his position it also looked like a clear pen, in hindsight me and the ref should've stopped play at the time to speak but we didn't with all that was going on, I now definitely know for next time!
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Glad you got it sorted, I had a cup final line recently, young ref in the middle, play is on the opposite side of the pitch to me so I have a side on view to the play, ref had a behind view.

Keeper comes out, clatters into attacker for a penalty with no play of the ball, clear as day to me.

Really bad timing as I waited a couple of seconds to see if the ref immediately waved it away, nothing forthcoming so I start flagging for the pen at which point ref cuts the grass...

Caused all sorts of issues as you can imagine!

Spoke to the ref and other ar after the game and other ar agreed from his position it also looked like a clear pen, in hindsight me and the ref should've stopped play at the time to speak but we didn't with all that was going on, I now definitely know for next time!
What we're the referees instructions before the game?
 

wazztie16

Level 7 Referee
Level 7 Referee
What we're the referees instructions before the game?
He said he'd do one of the 3 things, however it's the length of time he took, and I think more just unlucky timing that I gave him some time to respond, he didn't, I came in and as I came in he then responded.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
He said he'd do one of the 3 things, however it's the length of time he took, and I think more just unlucky timing that I gave him some time to respond, he didn't, I came in and as I came in he then responded.
I think you followed your instructions and it's unfortunate he also needed a little thinking time to decide.
For me, apart from what you mentioned for improvement (stop game and have a chat), there is one more thing. If the ref is unsure and needs thinking time, the first action should be a glance at AR to get their opinion. A nod of the head meas you have told him what you think and no need for flagging anymore. He can then make a decision and sell it whichever way he goes.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Glad you got it sorted, I had a cup final line recently, young ref in the middle, play is on the opposite side of the pitch to me so I have a side on view to the play, ref had a behind view.

Keeper comes out, clatters into attacker for a penalty with no play of the ball, clear as day to me.

Really bad timing as I waited a couple of seconds to see if the ref immediately waved it away, nothing forthcoming so I start flagging for the pen at which point ref cuts the grass...

Caused all sorts of issues as you can imagine!

Spoke to the ref and other ar after the game and other ar agreed from his position it also looked like a clear pen, in hindsight me and the ref should've stopped play at the time to speak but we didn't with all that was going on, I now definitely know for next time!
“Play is on the opposite side”... hmm. If it’s a DOGSO breakaway with the ref miles out of position, then flag it.

But if the ref is in a sensible position, I think the default for an AR - unless briefed otherwise - is not to flag this. It’s not credible to flag for an offence on the other side of the field if the ref is close by.

Most refs I work with - if they brief this - will ask for a flag only in the area to the post and only if 1000% and if sure the ref hasn’t seen it.

In this case of course it would have been better if the ref had cut the grass immediately (or alternatively looked to you for help).
 

wazztie16

Level 7 Referee
Level 7 Referee
“Play is on the opposite side”... hmm. If it’s a DOGSO breakaway with the ref miles out of position, then flag it.

But if the ref is in a sensible position, I think the default for an AR - unless briefed otherwise - is not to flag this. It’s not credible to flag for an offence on the other side of the field if the ref is close by.

Most refs I work with - if they brief this - will ask for a flag only in the area to the post and only if 1000% and if sure the ref hasn’t seen it.

In this case of course it would have been better if the ref had cut the grass immediately (or alternatively looked to you for help).

With the ref being behind play, so I didn't believe he'd have a great view, whereas I had a side on view, and with him not reacting quickly, I came in in the belief a penalty was the correct decision. In hindsight I maybe shouldn't have got involved, but then I was so sure of what I'd seen that I felt I had to.

I may do things differently next time.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
With the ref being behind play, so I didn't believe he'd have a great view, whereas I had a side on view, and with him not reacting quickly, I came in in the belief a penalty was the correct decision. In hindsight I maybe shouldn't have got involved, but then I was so sure of what I'd seen that I felt I had to.

I may do things differently next time.
It's a tough one if you look up and see the ref is out of view and e.g. just leaving the centre circle. It puts the AR in a very difficult position.

I had one of these last season. I thought it was clear breakaway DOGSO 30m from goal right in front of me and my ref was in the circle. I looked, he didn't react, I flagged it. He waved play on and was a bit miffed. Context is everything. It was 5th minute of what was going to be a one-side game anyway, and my ref was down in tier 4 having just retired from the top flight. I didn't know him or his character - turned out he is a very positive game manager. In retrospect, mostly because of the timing, I should've left it to him.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
It's a tough one if you look up and see the ref is out of view and e.g. just leaving the centre circle. It puts the AR in a very difficult position.

I had one of these last season. I thought it was clear breakaway DOGSO 30m from goal right in front of me and my ref was in the circle. I looked, he didn't react, I flagged it. He waved play on and was a bit miffed. Context is everything. It was 5th minute of what was going to be a one-side game anyway, and my ref was down in tier 4 having just retired from the top flight. I didn't know him or his character - turned out he is a very positive game manager. In retrospect, mostly because of the timing, I should've left it to him.
Clear DOGSO ignored because it is the first five minutes and you are expecting a once sided game?

I probably need more context on this than what was given but there is a difference between game management and making up your own laws.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Clear DOGSO ignored because it is the first five minutes and you are expecting a once sided game?

I probably need more context on this than what was given but there is a difference between game management and making up your own laws.
You and me both. But, in the end, I have to respect me referee. Sometimes we see different things. You know
 
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Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
With the ref being behind play, so I didn't believe he'd have a great view, whereas I had a side on view, and with him not reacting quickly, I came in in the belief a penalty was the correct decision. In hindsight I maybe shouldn't have got involved, but then I was so sure of what I'd seen that I felt I had to.

I may do things differently next time.
You just have to do what you think is right at the time. We referees aren't robots and people often forget that. Sometimes things can look messy, but in your particular case, the referee should have made a point of visibly going over to consult you and then confirming or overruling your flag.

You just know that if you hadn't flagged, you'd have had the time-honoured gob from the sidelines/bench "Come on lino, you've got to help him out there!!" :rolleyes: ;)
 
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