A&H

Keeper off his line at a penalty

LM1996

LM1996

New Member
I was on the line on a step 6 game yesterday. The home side were awarded a penalty in my half and I took up my position. The keeper came off his line before the kick was taken but the kicker put the ball miles wide.

I didn’t flag for this as I understood it that as the ball was kicked wide, and the keeper hadn’t put him off (my opinion) then the kick didn’t need to be retaken.

I mentioned it to the ref at half time and his interpretation was that the kick should have been retaken but that it was my choice whether to make that decision.

Was I wrong in my decision? Happy to accept my mistake if so and use it to learn and develop.
 
The Referee Store
Here we have prime example of the underlying current of other threads at the moment..

mentioning at half time is futile.

" here ref, i have some crucial information for you, but rather than tell you out on the pitch, i will tell you in the dressing room"

Why would you not share that info at the time?

worst that can happen is ref goes, thanks for your input but......

ball is wide, out of play, you have every chance to at very least check in with the referee. Lets not pretend window dressing matters, the whole reason we are referees is to make the correct call,how, where, why we do it, is secondary

bonus if its all neat and tidy.
 
Law 14 penalty is not retaken unless kicker clearly impacted.
So you had the right decision as per your understanding. So I get what Anubis is saying but actually your action came to the correct decision. Had you conferred with the ref at the time would have lead to an incorrect decision.
 
JamesL said:
Law 14 penalty is not retaken unless kicker clearly impacted.
So you had the right decision as per your understanding. So I get what Anubis is saying but actually your action came to the correct decision. Had you conferred with the ref at the time would have lead to an incorrect decision.
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Thanks James! It did leave me questioning whether I had misinterpreted the law but I was pretty certain I was right. Kicker was not impacted one bit, the keeper just came off his line towards the ball and the kicker spooned it massively wide!
 
JamesL said:
Law 14 penalty is not retaken unless kicker clearly impacted.
So you had the right decision as per your understanding. So I get what Anubis is saying but actually your action came to the correct decision. Had you conferred with the ref at the time would have lead to an incorrect decision.
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my point was not really about the decision, which reads to be correct, but, the bigger picture, there is nothing to be gained from giving the ref info at half time, if you have something to say, it needs be said at the time.

so absolutely full marks for not advising retake. But there really is nothing to say re the pk at half time
 
Anubis said:
my point was not really about the decision, which reads to be correct, but, the bigger picture, there is nothing to be gained from giving the ref info at half time, if you have something to say, it needs be said at the time.

so absolutely full marks for not advising retake. But there really is nothing to say re the pk at half time
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Completely understand your point! It was interesting that when I did speak to the ref about it, he was thankful that I didn’t bring him over to discuss it as he didn’t want that ‘situation’.
 
Anubis said:
my point was not really about the decision, which reads to be correct, but, the bigger picture, there is nothing to be gained from giving the ref info at half time, if you have something to say, it needs be said at the time.

so absolutely full marks for not advising retake. But there really is nothing to say re the pk at half time
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Of course there is. Referees talk to each other in the changing room about what happened in the game. If I've had any big shouts I'll ask my ARs if they thought I got it right, and sometimes they will say no but it wasn't credible for them to come in, which is fine. Likewise if I'm on the line and the referee asks me what I thought about a decision and I will answer honestly. If its a younger referee or a promotion candidate I might offer my opinions unsolicited, but even if I think they were wrong I'm not lobbing them under the bus by flagging for a penalty on the far side of the area to me.
 
RustyRef said:
Of course there is. Referees talk to each other in the changing room about what happened in the game. If I've had any big shouts I'll ask my ARs if they thought I got it right, and sometimes they will say no but it wasn't credible for them to come in, which is fine. Likewise if I'm on the line and the referee asks me what I thought about a decision and I will answer honestly. If its a younger referee or a promotion candidate I might offer my opinions unsolicited, but even if I think they were wrong I'm not lobbing them under the bus by flagging for a penalty on the far side of the area to me.
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I agree. As I said on another thread, I'm not marching in at HT (as an AR) saying " I thought x was y, b was c" etc, but if asked, and I often am, I will give an opinion.

Had a very sensible discussion last week about the caution v non caution mentioned in the "Be Aware" thread.

Referee was being assessed so he valued the input from me and other AR about the lack of caution (along with the missed "head butt" obviously!)

Would find it pretty strange if the 1st half wasn't mentioned in those 15 minutes in any game tbh!

I am talking relatively low level obviously, maybe its not done like that higher up - I don't know?
 
PinnerPaul said:
I agree. As I said on another thread, I'm not marching in at HT (as an AR) saying " I thought x was y, b was c" etc, but if asked, and I often am, I will give an opinion.

Had a very sensible discussion last week about the caution v non caution mentioned in the "Be Aware" thread.

Referee was being assessed so he valued the input from me and other AR about the lack of caution (along with the missed "head butt" obviously!)

Would find it pretty strange if the 1st half wasn't mentioned in those 15 minutes in any game tbh!

I am talking relatively low level obviously, maybe its not done like that higher up - I don't know?
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Definitely happens at higher levels as well. There are certain things that ARs must always get involved in regardless of their credibility, the obvious example is VC off the ball and behind the referee's back. No use in saving that until half or full time as too late then, but if I've missed a caution or even just a free kick in a non-credible area for either AR then yes I want to be told about it
 
Anubis said:
Here we have prime example of the underlying current of other threads at the moment..

mentioning at half time is futile.

" here ref, i have some crucial information for you, but rather than tell you out on the pitch, i will tell you in the dressing room"

Why would you not share that info at the time?

worst that can happen is ref goes, thanks for your input but......

ball is wide, out of play, you have every chance to at very least check in with the referee. Lets not pretend window dressing matters, the whole reason we are referees is to make the correct call,how, where, why we do it, is secondary

bonus if its all neat and tidy.
Click to expand...
Helpful and polite as ever.
 
Anubis said:
Here we have prime example of the underlying current of other threads at the moment..

mentioning at half time is futile.

" here ref, i have some crucial information for you, but rather than tell you out on the pitch, i will tell you in the dressing room"

Why would you not share that info at the time?

worst that can happen is ref goes, thanks for your input but......

ball is wide, out of play, you have every chance to at very least check in with the referee. Lets not pretend window dressing matters, the whole reason we are referees is to make the correct call,how, where, why we do it, is secondary

bonus if its all neat and tidy.
Click to expand...
The problem here is you incorrectly characterising it as "crucial information". It's not. And that distinction is key to deciding how we should act next.

It's entirely within your power to notice something, realise that it's irrelevant to the situation at hand and then keep it to yourself. Again, given the context of the question, you seem to be implying that you should flag, call the referee over and then tell them something that will not make any meaningful difference to the game. Make a big scene, make people think the kick will be retaken and then force the referee to appear to publicly overrule you - bad for the health of your teamwork for no benefit at all.

That lack of judgement and inability to go "does the referee need to know this?" before acting makes for a bad and disruptive AR. Doing what the OP in this thread did and filtering it through that question led to the game continuing on efficiently and correctly.
 
GraemeS said:
The problem here is you incorrectly characterising it as "crucial information". It's not. And that distinction is key to deciding how we should act next.

It's entirely within your power to notice something, realise that it's irrelevant to the situation at hand and then keep it to yourself. Again, given the context of the question, you seem to be implying that you should flag, call the referee over and then tell them something that will not make any meaningful difference to the game. Make a big scene, make people think the kick will be retaken and then force the referee to appear to publicly overrule you - bad for the health of your teamwork for no benefit at all.

That lack of judgement and inability to go "does the referee need to know this?" before acting makes for a bad and disruptive AR. Doing what the OP in this thread did and filtering it through that question led to the game continuing on efficiently and correctly.
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thats not what i mean at all. Its a general statement, not specific to the original post.
am saying not to get involved if its meaningless, and, by deeming it meaningless at the time, thats it, dead
its its worthy of mention at the time, thats a different situation
 
Anubis said:
thats not what i mean at all. Its a general statement, not specific to the original post.
am saying not to get involved if its meaningless, and, by deeming it meaningless at the time, thats it, dead
its its worthy of mention at the time, thats a different situation
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The place for making "general statements" isn't directly in response to a new referees unrelated question. It's perfectly reasonable to admit that you misunderstood the question and therefore that your previous answer was incorrect, which is clearly what happened.

If we then want to get on to proselytising and making sweeping statements about the state of refereeing, we can do that after, once the initial question has been sorted and the referee who has come to us for support has had the situation clarifying. But if you genuinely did see his question and go "aha, time for me to ignore the actual question and make a generalised jab at other forum users" then that's simply irresponsible posting.
 
GraemeS said:
The place for making "general statements" isn't directly in response to a new referees unrelated question. It's perfectly reasonable to admit that you misunderstood the question and therefore that your previous answer was incorrect, which is clearly what happened.

If we then want to get on to proselytising and making sweeping statements about the state of refereeing, we can do that after, once the initial question has been sorted and the referee who has come to us for support has had the situation clarifying. But if you genuinely did see his question and go "aha, time for me to ignore the actual question and make a generalised jab at other forum users" then that's simply irresponsible posting.
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Ignore my posts , That way, you unsee the irresponsibility . And with it, reduce the conflict on threads. Send me a private message if you wish a personal response, that way, dirty washing is done in private
 
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