A&H

Hi All, just one issue

D

dbo5ton

Member
Level 4 Referee
Good morning all,

Been reffing for about 4 months now, after 10 years of playing/ managing/ running clubs at Grassroots Level.
Thought id turn my hand to refereeing, thoroughly enjoying it. Been doing my local league on a sat and sunday. And a couple of lines midweek for other various leagues.

My only issue is after turning 30 this year, all the help and guidance promised by the CFA seems like bulls**t. My personal opinion is that they view me as past it and would rather focus on the younger people coming through. One example is this "mentor" seeing me 4 times in my first three months. Not had so much as a phone call or visit.

My personal aim is to climb as high up the ladder as physically possibly whilst at the same time being realistic.
Anyone else had similar issues please
 
The Referee Store
I think this varies by county and also by personal experience.

One suggestion would be to contact your RDO (referee development officer) to ask him/her.

Have you been sending in the games you are appointed to as well? Without that they dont know where you are. Have you been assigned a mentor? If so have you been in touch with them... my personal experiences suggest its a two way process and sometimes you have to ask for the support 1st.

Finally, one way of ensuring you get people to come and watch you and give structured, written feedback is to get on the promotion path. Even if you only want to go as far as level 5 the observations will really help you develop as a referee.
 
Ive emailed both my RDOs numerous times and I get a very generic response. I have been filling my games on the wholegame. Not been assigned a mentor that I know of. Even though ive asked several times.

I have to spend a full year at L7 and I will be applying for promotion in feb/ mar but i certainly will be when the opportunity arises
 
Here's my 2 cents worth as someone who qualified in my late 30's and I'm speaking from my experience with my local CFA and RA.

All of the support I got was when I reached out for it and I put it down to 2 factors.

Firstly, here in Hampshire, there is a shortage of referees, so many of the mentors were ending up covering games as the appointment secretaries are so short. Those that could come and watch are observers who are spending their time on the promotion candidates, not newly qualified referees. I got watched when newly qualified by accident as an assessor had his game called off at the last minute so decided to watch me instead as I was at the same venue.

Secondly, if your course was anything like mine, it was dominated by young referees. I feel that they need more support than us slightly older people, not in terms of laws and positioning, but in terms of them not having the "life experience" to handle situations on the pitch. It does feel like they get more time and effort, how very I'd argue they need it, especially as a 16 or 17 year old doing open age football.

Join your local RA, speak to the other members there and get to know them, there will always be people you can call or speak to if you need to, however the onus is on you to initiate it.

Fundamentally it's a resource issue that's driving it...
 
I appreciate the advice. I have joined my local RA, and have some very experienced chaps that I have already learnt a huge amount from.

Im not saying I want "puppy walking" I just feel if and when the time comes for promotion that the younger ones are seen a longer term investments.
 
dbo5ton said:
Good morning all,

Been reffing for about 4 months now, after 10 years of playing/ managing/ running clubs at Grassroots Level.
Thought id turn my hand to refereeing, thoroughly enjoying it. Been doing my local league on a sat and sunday. And a couple of lines midweek for other various leagues.

My only issue is after turning 30 this year, all the help and guidance promised by the CFA seems like bulls**t. My personal opinion is that they view me as past it and would rather focus on the younger people coming through. One example is this "mentor" seeing me 4 times in my first three months. Not had so much as a phone call or visit.

My personal aim is to climb as high up the ladder as physically possibly whilst at the same time being realistic.
Anyone else had similar issues please
Click to expand...
Very common issue even here in Aus. As mentioned its an issue of limited resources.

As mentioned, younger refs get more support because they need it in terms of game management. However here is the hardly talked about practice that doesn't work in favour of older guys progress. Every RA is in search of the referee who one day will referee in a world cup and wants to develop that referee. Anyone fitting that bill is going to get a bigger share of the limited resources. If you start at a late age you have a smaller chance of making it to the top. You wont get totally ignored but you wont get the same time as a 16YO who is showing a lot of talent and potential.

I don't think the issue is with the practice but with miss-communication of how things work and setting false expectations.

All is not lost for you, it just means you have to put a bigger effort in to get to where you want to get.
 
I intentionally went under the radar of all the promotion stuff, i'll leave that stuff to the decent refs on here to fight over and Minty too! :redcard:
 
Feel you. Similar up North in Santa-land. Down to resources. There's extra training for the most promising under 25s. Number of assessments, special assignments, and in the end, even promotion - all based on anecdotal evidence from peers. My answer was to be as constructive and positive as possible - all the time. I hassle my refsec for spare assignments and observations in the nicest possible way. I volunteer for anything within reason to try a get experience one or two levels higher than qualified. I also take "lower" games as I see them all as a chance to learn/practice and I enjoy them. The only limit is Ms Sangria's patience!

Luckily I also feel totally comfortable learning from much younger guys and gals who have more experience and have had far more training than me. I noticed this season that I apply a bit of pressure on the best young refs that I get to work with because when they are on top form I learn more and get better.

Maybe the biggest one for me is that I have tried to take the big doubt - fitness - out of the equation. I started five years ago at 38. I want to compete with the younger refs. So, I have put a lot of effort in to the fitness side. I figure if I can run past some (or, fingers crossed, most) of them and run comfortably for the required duration (especially double headers) then that's a big doubt removed from the promotion board's and refsec's minds. Not a given though - niggling injuries to manage here!

We are quite a tight and big group though so we see a lot of each other. There are more opportunities to meet and learn informally.
 
How much do you charge for Sleigh rides Santa??? The Yorkshire mob on here were thinking of making a weekend of it. May even have to pack a jumper i'm told!!! We've all been finish-ed as refs for a while!!
 
santa sangria said:
Maybe the biggest one for me is that I have tried to take the big doubt - fitness - out of the equation. I started five years ago at 38. I want to compete with the younger refs. So, I have put a lot of effort in to the fitness side. I figure if I can run past some (or, fingers crossed, most) of them and run comfortably for the required duration (especially double headers) then that's a big doubt removed from the promotion board's and refsec's minds. Not a given though - niggling injuries to manage here!

We are quite a tight and big group though so we see a lot of each other. There are more opportunities to meet and learn informally.
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Thats exactly my situation too. I get praised for being cool, calm and collected (i even got called "Serene" once when I was watched and had a mass confrontation that I had to sort out), the biggest thing that will stop me progressing is my fitness, which being early 40's, having family and work commitments is not always easy to find the time to invest in.

One other point to the OP - its important to distinguish between being a newly qualified referee and going for promotion. With promotion, there is a very clearly defined process around application, workshop and additional LOTG exam, number of games and observations.

Finally, start to think about how you could get onto your local supply league panel as an AR- down this way they are always looking for them, it gives you the chance to operate in a team of 3 and work with Level 4 referees. There are more frequent observations for the L4's as well, so you get to hear what is being looked for from the observers. My game improved dramatically when I joined the Supply League AR Panel, both from paying attention to how these more experienced referees operated and also listening to the post match observers debrief.
 
Many thanks for the answers folks. I am on the constant hunt for supply league games, ive done 5/6 and a few WPL games on the line, like you say learning from more experienced refs
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I intentionally went under the radar of all the promotion stuff, i'll leave that stuff to the decent refs on here to fight over and Minty too! :redcard:
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Cheeky get! Had to read that thrice to understand the insult.....which I knew was there.
Fairly similar story here too Boston tea party, though I was even older but had no ambition. Getting on the one promotion was enough to do my confidence the power of good. Did it for my benefit and nobody else's.
 
took my course at 44. Didn't get a mentor. Emailed Cambs fa and Suffolk FA with my first 5 games I took my course in Cambs but live in Suffolk. Never got observed once. But I get all the tasty games at youth level finals semi finals, grudge matches so I am either doing something right or more likely doing lots wrong. My CFA seem to let me get on with it with very little interference.
 
My slightly older! next door neighbour did course with me when he was (very) late 40s.

He's about 63 now and a level 4 - has been at that level for about 6/7 years I think.
 
It's rare for even the youngsters to get mentors in my area, at your age you should have enough life skills to get by as you start out in ref'ing.

Join a local RA or find a group of like minded refs. Don't expect the CFA to do things for you..

Get on the promotion scheme. The mandarins may be interested in youth as they have targets to meet, but you'll find many observers will be eager to see people with a bit of life experience.
 
My son passed his exams recently, so i suppose i'm a mentor of a sort. Ive offered to mentor Minty recently but he preferred me to push the wheelchair instead!!! :)
 
As has been said, it is an issue of limited resources and prioritisation. The ratio of mentors to referees is incredibly low, so more support is likely to be given to the younger referees as they have more chance of progressing. From what I've seen that isn't a lot different to how it works in other countries. For example, in Norway they have the NorCore group where all of the refereeing coaching is thrown, I don't know the exact age range but it ends young, perhaps early to mid 20s.

In London we run a "Referee Mastermind" event every month, this is open to all referees regardless of age or level. Whereas the referee academies that London help run at Arsenal, Millwall and Charlton are focused on younger referees, as this is a safe environment for them to learn before they get thrown out into the wilderness on their own at the likes of Hackney Marshes.

Whilst this may well be "ageist", the undeniable fact remains that referees and assistants cannot get onto FIFA after the age of 37. So, there are always going to be resources available to younger referees that aren't necessarily available to older referees, as National Associations need to get referees into their top divisions in time to meet that age limit. It could be argued that England have failed to do this and been left behind, given that we can't fill our FIFA quota, and won't have a referee at the World Cup for the first time in many years.
 
dbo5ton said:
Good morning all,

Been reffing for about 4 months now, after 10 years of playing/ managing/ running clubs at Grassroots Level.
Thought id turn my hand to refereeing, thoroughly enjoying it. Been doing my local league on a sat and sunday. And a couple of lines midweek for other various leagues.

My only issue is after turning 30 this year, all the help and guidance promised by the CFA seems like bulls**t. My personal opinion is that they view me as past it and would rather focus on the younger people coming through. One example is this "mentor" seeing me 4 times in my first three months. Not had so much as a phone call or visit.

My personal aim is to climb as high up the ladder as physically possibly whilst at the same time being realistic.
Anyone else had similar issues please
Click to expand...
Back in March this year i attended a seminar recruiting referee mentors, we then referees were told the mentoring would be implemented before the start of the season, then on and off for 8 months i have emailed the F.A. and got 1 reply last month stating there were delays in implementing the mentoring of referees and we would hear in due course. Needless to say it has been 9 months now and apart from that one email i have had no updates or any information, so i am not holding my breath.Methinks it might be next season before anything happens........
 
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