RefSix

Handball - the Premier League and pundits don't help.

#1
It can't be just my games that every time the ball hits someone's hand/arm the players get so damn angry about it being handball?

The rules state:
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand).
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball).
•  the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence.

I had a game yesterday, It was 1-1 and in the 88th minute (of course to make it all more dramatic) there was a bit of pin ball on the edge of the area and the ball hit the defenders arm. The attacker who kicked it was no more than 1 meter away and the player's arm remained in the same position throughout. His arms were in a normal position for what was going on.

I dismissed it and the defending team went on a counter attack, so the players soon shut up and ran back instead of moaning. Obviously at FT the players and a very angry manager came over and gave their 2 cents.

Would you agree that the PL and these 'pundits' don't help when it comes to grassroots? It appears players and coaches expect a FK every time it hits the hand.
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#2
It appears players and coaches expect a FK every time it hits the hand.
Yes, it's one of those things. I think the law has been applied inconsistently over time as well, which hasn't really helped matters. The IFAB is supposed to be reviewing that law though, so hopefully it'll change and clean things up a bit.
 

markref

Active Member
#4
I had exactly the same last weekend when a team unbeaten for two years lost to a team they beat heavily last season. They were attacking at 1-1 when the ball was hit at a defender near the P.A. from a yard away, hitting his arm. Cue shouts of “that’s handball! He’s got to move his arm out of the way!” etc. Meanwhile the other team break and score to take a lead they never lost. When you tell them that handball has to be deliberate they don’t understand because the player gained an advantage.
One of the team shouted that “the experts on the telly say that’s handball! And they should know because they’ve played the game for years !” He didn’t like it when I replied “but they’re still talking rubbish!”
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#5
Surprised nobody has quoted this one...... 3min 15.

Deliberate? No
Natural position? Yes, he is appealing for offside so his hand is exactly where you would expect it to be!
Hand move to the ball? No, not at all, ball clearly moves to his hand
Distance? Centimeters.
And, the position of the hand does not always mean there is an offence...

that said.....its a clear pk !!!!!

 

one

RefChat Addict
#6
Natural position? Yes, he is appealing for offside so his hand is exactly where you would expect it to be!
I do NOT expect a player put his arm up like that as the ball is coming straight at him, appeal or not (which i am not sure he is). So for me there is no way his arm is in a natural position.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#7
I do NOT expect a player put his arm up like that as the ball is coming straight at him, appeal or not (which i am not sure he is). So for me there is no way his arm is in a natural position.

100% appealing for offside. so, 100% the same as the expected offside appeal, hand up. Blows, unnatural position out of the window, totally natural position for his hands to be in !!

(trust me, he appeals for offside, if in doubt, roll it on a bit, he says to ref, "offside"),
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#8
I do NOT expect a player put his arm up like that as the ball is coming straight at him, appeal or not (which i am not sure he is). So for me there is no way his arm is in a natural position.
But they do it every game, a natural reaction when they think there has been an offside.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#9
Clearly he can see the ball is coming directly at him (from a free kick). Would it make a difference if the opponent the ball deflected off wasn't in front of him and the ball hit his arm directly? Still a 'natural' reaction for offside appeal and no handball?
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#10
It can't be just my games that every time the ball hits someone's hand/arm the players get so damn angry about it being handball?

The rules state:
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand).
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball).
•  the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence.

I had a game yesterday, It was 1-1 and in the 88th minute (of course to make it all more dramatic) there was a bit of pin ball on the edge of the area and the ball hit the defenders arm. The attacker who kicked it was no more than 1 meter away and the player's arm remained in the same position throughout. His arms were in a normal position for what was going on.

I dismissed it and the defending team went on a counter attack, so the players soon shut up and ran back instead of moaning. Obviously at FT the players and a very angry manager came over and gave their 2 cents.

Would you agree that the PL and these 'pundits' don't help when it comes to grassroots? It appears players and coaches expect a FK every time it hits the hand.
Had one today, player attacking, defender slides in, attacker jumps to avoid and his hand goes above his head, ball pings from defender's slide up to his hand. Nothing he could do about it, players weren't too happy. Easy one to give and get on with it, it was handball in the professional game, but in no way was it deliberate.
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#11
Had one today, player attacking, defender slides in, attacker jumps to avoid and his hand goes above his head, ball pings from defender's slide up to his hand. Nothing he could do about it, players weren't too happy. Easy one to give and get on with it, it was handball in the professional game, but in no way was it deliberate.
Ergo it was not handball at any level........
 
#13
Appealing for offside means your hand is in a natural position, really?

Interesting take.

There’s one league I do where I normally remind the captains that I can’t help them if defenders put their hands in the air. Play to the whistle!
 
#15
While I think natural position has always referre to a natural playing position, it is also true that nothing in the LOTG says that the ball hitting a hand or arm in an unnatural position is deliberate handling. Unnatural position is really a clue for determining what is deliberate.

I actually find the original play an interesting scenario (to be clear—I’m referring to the player putting his arm up to plead for OS.) While he did not intend to touch the ball, he deliberately put his arm up in the air while the ball was coming towards him in the air—he chose to put his arm into the space he knew the ball was coming into. I think handling is the right call here. (And I’m in the camp that says “not deliberate, keep playing” on a routine basis while I ref.)
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#16
It can't be just my games that every time the ball hits someone's hand/arm the players get so damn angry about it being handball?

The rules state:
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand).
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball).
•  the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence.

I had a game yesterday, It was 1-1 and in the 88th minute (of course to make it all more dramatic) there was a bit of pin ball on the edge of the area and the ball hit the defenders arm. The attacker who kicked it was no more than 1 meter away and the player's arm remained in the same position throughout. His arms were in a normal position for what was going on.

I dismissed it and the defending team went on a counter attack, so the players soon shut up and ran back instead of moaning. Obviously at FT the players and a very angry manager came over and gave their 2 cents.

Would you agree that the PL and these 'pundits' don't help when it comes to grassroots? It appears players and coaches expect a FK every time it hits the hand.
Agree about the pundits mak8ng it more difficult. Problem is that the ref pundits have been even worse recently lol
 
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