RefSix

Handball in the box

#1
Hi guys

Just come back from an under 11 cup semi final and awarded a last minute penalty and I'm wondering if I've made the right call.

So a defender makes a sliding challenge in the box but as he's sliding his momentum has resulted in him handling the ball so I awarded a penalty which was scored and won the game.

Now I'm sure I made the right call but can I have some reassurance - away manager shouting his head after, crying child etc ☹
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#2
90% + of handballs are not deliberate, its a YHTBT moment to give advice but it has to be pretty obvious for me to affect a game in the last minute for a ball to hand / hand to ball incident. That said, it was your call!!!
 

one

RefChat Addict
#3
Hi guys

Just come back from an under 11 cup semi final and awarded a last minute penalty and I'm wondering if I've made the right call.

So a defender makes a sliding challenge in the box but as he's sliding his momentum has resulted in him handling the ball so I awarded a penalty which was scored and won the game.

Now I'm sure I made the right call but can I have some reassurance - away manager shouting his head after, crying child etc ☹
As shefield said it's a you have to be there moment. But I will ask your a question to help.
Did the defender 'deliberately' handle (made hand contact with) the ball?
Yes or no answer .
 
#5
When you see a potential handling offence, the question you have to ask yourself is whether this was the deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the arm or hand. It's difficult to judge based on a written description. So are you sure the player did this deliberately? Once he was already sliding along the ground, did he have the chance to move his arm out of the way - but chose not to? That would be deliberate handling for me.

However if it was it a case where because of the way his body was positioned, combined with his momentum, he did not have a chance to avoid the ball hitting his hand, then I would say it was not deliberate and therefore not an offence.

In the end though, it's "Your match, your decision, your reputation."
 

one

RefChat Addict
#9
Well thinking about it in my head I think he's has touched in trying to get back up. So no I don't think it was deliberate
There you go. It wasn't a deliberate handball. And from your description it wasn't any other deliberate action to effect a deliberate handball.
 
#11
Well thinking about it in my head I think he's has touched in trying to get back up. So no I don't think it was deliberate
With handball, we say 'deliberate' but that doesn't mean 'he's thought about it and made a conscious decision'. It's more akin to careless - has teh player taken all due care to avoid handling the ball? Could you reasonably have expected him to avoid handling the ball?

If he's gone and put his hands on the ground to get up, and in doing so handled the ball or put it in the path the ball is going, that sounds like a foul. If his arms were already on the ground and he's just pushed himself up and the ball collided with his arm at the same time, that sounds like no foul.

Are you able to offer a bit more detail on the incident?

It's good that you're reflecting on it.

I was hoping that id come on and I'd feel more confident in my decision but I'm really really doubting myself now ☹
That's a good thing :)
You learn more from mistakes than you do from successes. If you have made a mistake, then it's up to you to take as much as you can from it to minimise the chance of making the same mistake. If you've been able to take something away from it, then the mistake hasn't been a complete loss.

Believe me, you're going to make worse mistakes than this :)
 
#12
Im more upset that my decision has cost a team a cup final. I'm trying to replay everything in my head but i can't recall everything as now I'm unsure as to whether I made the right call and so is my memory adding details to justify my decision
 
#13
Im more upset that my decision has cost a team a cup final. I'm trying to replay everything in my head but i can't recall everything as now I'm unsure as to whether I made the right call and so is my memory adding details to justify my decision
You'll make wrong decisions that will cost games. That can change premiership titles, who gets into finals, and so forth. That's our lot, the burden we've chosen to carry.
If you feel bad about it, then use that to motivate you to learn from it - I always felt like I at least owed it to the players I had wronged to try not to make the same mistake again.

Honestly, it sounds like a 'you have to be there' decision. From your description, I can picture ways it is a clear foul, ways it isn't, and ways that would split the forum 50-50. Don't beat yourself up over it, especially if you can't remember it clearly. No point. You may have gotten it right after all.
Just make sure you always remember that it must be deliberate, that doesn't change in the box - and it doesn't matter if it's accidental handling that benefits the handler, it's still accidental.
While we all like quick decisions, if you need to take a moment to be sure, do it. Sometimes we all need that.
Don't let the coach get in your head - the player could have picked up the ball and thrown it and the coach wouldn't have reacted any differently.

For what it's worth, FIFA tend to take the view that the bar for 'deliberate' really gets lowered when defenders start doing desperate things like sliding.
If the ball was under the player and in the process of putting his final hand down bumped the ball, that's going to be a foul (I mean, if he's made the decision to put his hand down to push up, not if the hand has come down as part of falling).
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#14
Im more upset that my decision has cost a team a cup final. I'm trying to replay everything in my head but i can't recall everything as now I'm unsure as to whether I made the right call and so is my memory adding details to justify my decision
I know this is easy for me to say, but don't dwell on it.

It's experience, you've reflected on it and it'll do you in good steed in the future when you need to make that decision again.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#15
Don't ever blame the loss of a team on yourself. Referees make mistakes and that is expected and part of the game. There would have been mistakes by players that lead to them conceding other goals or not scoring goals in the game as well. Your mistake (if it was that) may have contributed but was not the reason for for the loss.

Looking at the grand scheme of things, what you contribute to the game as a referee is far bigger than than the odd mistakes you make here and there. Be proud of your contributions, learn from your mistakes and move on (the same as what you would do with anything else in life).
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
#16
Here's a video on handling from an American FIFA instructor and former World Cup referee. There are two examples that sound similar to the play you're describing. The second example is probably closer to what you experienced. Both are expected to be called fouls at the professional level. Now at a U11 level, then you had to be there to judge an opinion. And don't view it as costing a team a game, because if you didn't call it, the other team would feel the same way.

Note: The 2nd example starts at 2:40 in the video and then afterwards Esse goes into an explanation of why these are both handling fouls.

 
#19
can I ask two questions? the second may be hard to answer.

How old are you and what was the age of the players? Edit, sorry under 11's as per your OP, how old are you?

Was there a big shout from a coach/manager or parent perhaps that could have influenced your decision?
 
D

Deleted member 3014

Guest
#20
Sometimes there is no right decision apart from the one you gave at the time! That was right to you then & you don’t have 100% factual proof in your head that you made the wrong call, forget it & move on.

There are many decisions goals fouls pens given on a weekly basis in the pro game & yet pundits can’t say for sure what was the correct decision either way, it’s part of the game I’m afraid you just have to move on & not dwell on it.

P.s bloody shame for you that the keeper didn’t save it.
 
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