A&H

General bad language

T

Top man in the parish

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
havent really scrolled all through each and every thread, so my question is this;

Has the 'general' use of poor/bad language improved, stayed about the same, or worsened in your county over the last 3 seasons?

Whatever, any particular reason for the improvement/status quo/decline in your opinion?

I'm from Oxfordshire and it appears to be generally 'accepted' as part of the game, except by the very old die hards!

Many thanks colleagues
 
The Referee Store
To be honest, I've seen (or heard!) little change over the past few seasons. Players berating themselves or, less often, their team mates, for poor play by using a variety of 'colourful' language is common place. I personally don't find this in any way offensive .. it's no different to what you'd hear down the pub though obviously sometimes it's said a bit more loudly!

I certainly don't see it as my role to get involved with this. Would far rather keep my powder dry for the true cases of OFFINABUS, when the language is directed at one of the officials, opponents or just concievably, a team mate
 
Russell Jones said:
To be honest, I've seen (or heard!) little change over the past few seasons. Players berating themselves or, less often, their team mates, for poor play by using a variety of 'colourful' language is common place. I personally don't find this in any way offensive .. it's no different to what you'd hear down the pub though obviously sometimes it's said a bit more loudly!

I certainly don't see it as my role to get involved with this. Would far rather keep my powder dry for the true cases of OFFINABUS, when the language is directed at one of the officials, opponents or just concievably, a team mate
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Cheers Russell
 
There are a couple of grounds I referee at that have houses with short rear gardens backing onto the pitch. one of them, home team always ask me to ensure no-one swears as local council have issued warnings that football will be stopped if complaints from neighbours persist about bad language.
I always speak to teams, home team erect a no swearing sign but once game starts so does swearing as it is so ingrained as the norm when playing football. I speak to players after they have sworn but I am reluctant to discipline with cards where I would not normally as not directed at me. This leads to complaints from home team as I have not prevented swearing.
 
happy whistler said:
There are a couple of grounds I referee at that have houses with short rear gardens backing onto the pitch. one of them, home team always ask me to ensure no-one swears as local council have issued warnings that football will be stopped if complaints from neighbours persist about bad language.
I always speak to teams, home team erect a no swearing sign but once game starts so does swearing as it is so ingrained as the norm when playing football. I speak to players after they have sworn but I am reluctant to discipline with cards where I would not normally as not directed at me. This leads to complaints from home team as I have not prevented swearing.
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So clearly someone is being offended by the bad language....if only we had the power to do something about that.....?
 
Padfoot said:
So clearly someone is being offended by the bad language....if only we had the power to do something about that.....?
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If the person who is being offended is nothing whatsoever to do with the game then personally I'm not interested. More than enough things on / around the pitch for me to worry about already! And I'd be making clear to the home team that asked me to 'police' it that all they should expect from me is a polite request before the game
 
There is 3G facility in my county, which has only been open for 2 yrs and they have already had to remove the open age teams that were using it for small sided football midweek, and for Sunday games, due to the bad language.
The local residents complained to the council, the council monitoring equipment and undertook monitoring for a 9 month period.

Whilst you may think you can wash your hands of your responsibility to the game, in reality, referees have a wider responsibility to consider in situation like this.

What sort of impression do you think you are giving to those residents who will no doubt be doing their own 'monitoring'?

When the home team lose their pitch because referees couldn't be bothered to do their job, how do you think will reflect on referees?
 
Hmmm, you make some interesting points @Padfoot , food for thought. However I genuinely think it's a slippery slope when we take it on ourselves to try to decide what specific language people not involved in the game may or may not find offensive. Especially when the only legal sanction available to us is the 'nuclear' option of a red for OFFINABUS. As I said, I'd happily have a word with the teams in advance to try and help the situation. However, to paint an extreme picture, I'm not going to send a player off for colourfully berating himself for a piece of bad play just because a nearby parent might be concerned by 'little Johnny' hearing it ... but interested to hear others' views :)
 
Interesting debate.
I wish games were free from bad language but it is accepted as norm. Even head of refereeing stated that industrial language should be accepted although he was probably primarily interested in premier league.
The scenario I referred to in my post was swearing at team mates such as 'you've lost your f..... man again Joe' at self for missing chance and after scoring saying 'get in there you f..... beauty'
Would be interested in what padfoot would have done in these situations. Only sanctions open are verbal ticking off or red card which would seem extreme.
I can see it from nearby residents point of view but grounds which I have been involved in would have been there long before residents moved in so they would have known what to expect when making decision to live there.
 
I'm largely with Padfoot on this one.

I think that we as referees are the only people that have authority over everyone involved in the game and thus have a responsibility matching that privilege. No-one else can hope to stop all players, coaches etc swearing on pitches beside residential areas and playgrounds and so, if anyone should, we should.

I generally find that a quick word before the game - "look lads, we're right beside a kid's play-park, please try to keep the swearing down," works wonders - you do tend to get a lot of "Oh Fuc...sorry ref..." but most players make a conscious effort and respond well to gentle reminders.
happy whistler said:
Only sanctions open are verbal ticking off or red card which would seem extreme.
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As I said, I don't think it usually gets to this point but I think that you could issue a yellow card. It could be for dissent - if you ask someone not to do something and they do it, by doing so they are dissenting against your original request; or even the mighty "acts in a manner which shows a lack of respect for the game". Bit of a stretch I know...

However, if I have asked someone not to swear because people in the vicinity might find it offensive and they completely dis-regard my instruction I would, and think I should, send them off.
 
I'm not saying I would caution (athough I'd certainly struggle to RC in the scenarios covered) but you could easily make a YC fit if you wanted
Isn't that why USB is so generic? It's the "everything else in here please" caution

If I took any action I'd at most find one token swearer to take a caution for the team in the 85th minute.
That way I've taken action but the minimum required.
Not sure I'd even bother doing that and I certainly won't be RCing anyone
 
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deusex said:
I'm not saying I would caution (athough I'd certainly struggle to RC in the scenarios covered) but you could easily make a YC fit if you wanted
Isn't that why USB is so generic? It's the "everything else in here please" caution

If I took any action I'd at most find one token swearer to take a caution for the team in the 85th minute.
That way I've taken action but the minimum required.
Not sure I'd even bother doing that and I certainly won't be RCing anyone
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May as well not bother to do anything then.....

You'd be better off finding your token swearer in the 5th minute if you really wanted to make your point.....

I think that in a situation where a club or league risk losing a pitch if the swearing isn't dealt with, then we have a responsibility not to ignore it and to take a firm stance in support of the home clubs request.
If that means a RC or three then so be it......warn the teams before the game that you will be taking a firm stance, maybe even give another warning during the game if they are having trouble controlling themselves, but then after the first red card, I bet the self control improves!

Imagine the council writing to your CFA stating that despite being told of the situation and the home clubs request, you still did nothing about it?
Or worse, writing to the local papers?
 
In the years I've been refereeing, I've never been given a definitive list of yeses and no-no's by my local FA.

I just wondered how referees from around the land 'viewed' the use of bad language, I see it as a responsibility, always have, 'To preserve and protect the credibility of the game' is what I was told all that time ago.

Keep your comments coming please, every opinion and comment is most welcome
 
Here we go, lest start listing all the possible words and categorise as definate, possible or no way-a-card.

Oh hold on, lets not, firstly most will probably be censored, and secondly, we'll never agree as to what gows into waht category as everyone has different views on what is, OK, poor language, bad language and what is OFFINABUS - everyone has different standards and views.

I worked with one group who referred to each other and cun7, in a term of endearment - and were offended that other found it offensive (NB wasn't in the UK but English was the first language!)
 
HRW said:
Here we go, lest start listing all the possible words and categorise as definate, possible or no way-a-card.

Oh hold on, lets not, firstly most will probably be censored, and secondly, we'll never agree as to what gows into waht category as everyone has different views on what is, OK, poor language, bad language and what is OFFINABUS - everyone has different standards and views.

I worked with one group who referred to each other and cun7, in a term of endearment - and were offended that other found it offensive (NB wasn't in the UK but English was the first language!)
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I have to agree in part.

I work in the motor trade and I have to say we all swear like sailors (internally, not at customers of course), and the c word can actually be used as a term of endearment at times. That's the motor trade and it's been the same everywhere I've worked.

Not big or clever and I hate to think what my mother would say if she spent a day at work with me, but that's how it is.

So my tolerance level in terms of general usage is probably higher than most.

That means on the pitch I'm more likely to let language between players go (provided there are no children present and it's not homophobic, racist, sexist etc), but direct swearing in an offensive way at me and I will walk the player.

It's a fine line. Yes we have a responsibility to protect the image of the grassroots game to the general public but we also have many other responsibilities on the pitch at the time to deal with.
 
To answer the original question I would have to say that language has in the 3 years I've been reffing stayed about the same. My dad who hung his whistle up 15 years ago reckons language has got a lot worse and on chatting about it come to the conclusion that, rightly or wrongly, what were identified as swear words when he was younger now seem to be everyday language and heard in everyday situations including music and TV/films etc.

It's an interesting topic and I'm caught agreeing with some things but then seeing the grey areas.

For example, one local park I have reffed at has a social club in its ground, along with a playground etc. It is quite common to hear someone shouting "For effs sake get over here you little B*****d" at their offspring (and that's just the terms of endearment) so I'm not overly sure if a player shouts "Dash it my good man that didn't go quite right" to one of his mates (or words to that effect) needs me stepping in.

On the other hand, I went to another pitch which had a small playground next to it with small nippers playing quietly and did send someone off for shouting "take that you C***s" so everyone could hear it when they scored as it was so far over the mark.

Two playgrounds next to playing areas that are miles apart in what is acceptable (offensive) to the people using them. Life is grey, not 100% black or white.

That's another question with OFFINABUS, if nobody present finds it any of the three is it OFFINABUS, even though it could be offensive to Mr. Hypothetical who is not there? Not trying to be clever but I find things offensive that others don't and they may find things offensive that have me laughing.
 
RegalRef said:
Surely as @Top man in the parish you should be producing said list, not receiving it?
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Like all others, I have my own tolerance levels, the 2 'C' words are a no-no, I never accept them, most definitely when directed at me, my colleagues or a club a/r.

The 3 P's were what I was advised to consider, Personal, Public, Provocative, if I can perm any 2 from the 3 it's always a straight red card, I'm willing to judge each case on its merits if it's just one of them, but it doesn't have to be swearing.
 
I've always been unsure whenever I hear players berating their own team mates in what some people (depending on your background) would consider an OFFINABUS way.
I know that the LOTG stipulates that anything OFFINABUS is a straight red - but again, that is up to the ref to interpret what qualifies as such isn't it?
As alluded to above, swearing has evolved as part of the game these days (rightly or wrongly) and so I feel it's a very big (potentially match-changing) call to send someone from the field of play for something he/she may have said many times before in a match without penalty.
I generally blow my whistle very loudly, call the offender over to me, and loudly and publically point out that his language is unacceptable and another outburst will result in his marching orders.
Having said all that, were it to happen during an assessment - then he'd have to go - no warnings or excuses. :(
 
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