The Ref Stop

France vs England

FIFA agree with you RustyRef, Mr Sampaio is staying on in the last 12 referees, Michael Oliver is on his flight home. 🤔
I think this has a LOT more to do with the fact there is a very influential Brazilian in a high place on the FIFA referee committee. His influence has seemed to have an outsize influence on Sampaio's assignments this event than his actual ability.

Refereeing assignments at this level can be a strange beast at times. When it comes to Michael Oliver, if he wasn't going to be on the final then he probably wasn't going to stick around. I'm sure he doesn't need me to say this, but he can fly back to England knowing he had a phenomenal tournament and made a great account of himself. I won't be surprised in the least to see him with a very important game in North American come four year's time.
 
The Ref Stop
To take that a step further… and one reason why I think the protocol is fundamentally flawed… if an AR can call an offence the ref has not seen, why can’t a vAR…?
Well, an AR can't "call" any offenses at all. The AR can only recommend the R makes the call. But that doesn't necessarily shift the concept here, as one can ask why the VAR can't recommend a call without the R seeing it. I think there are a few answers there. First, the VAR does recommend without the R's review on all "objective" calls. For judgment calls, we are often talking about a call that the R saw but made a different judgment from the VAR on what he saw. So if we are keeping the concept that the R makes all calls, then we would be asking the R to simply accept that he was completely wrong on what he saw, even though he was confident enough to make a call (or no call). And if we don't let the R have final say, that is a very deep change to many decades of the concept that the man in the middle owns every decision. And having VAR make the decisions alone, without the R, gives the R less control on the pitch, as the "eye in the sky" is "really" making all of the important decisions. And we couple that with the fact that the R is, in general, a more senior ref, so we'd be letting a more junior ref overrule the more experienced ref on the field. So I'm not sold on eliminating OFRs on subjective calls. (Though I could see a bit more flexibility where the R would have more discretion as to whether to go to the monitor or accept the VAR recommendation depending context and why the R did or did not make the call. But I think that is probably an evolution issue once Rs, VARs, teams, and fans are more linked in to the process.)

That said, the process can definitely be run in better and worse ways. I do think that MLS has been a leader in developing and implementing efficient processes on OFRs, including the images shown to the R. The MLS VAR is typically telling the R as he runs over what the first image is, and showing the best image(s) for the particular decision being reviewed. The MLS Rs are also typically good at owning the OFR and telling the VAR if there is another view they need to see to confirm the decision (and the skilled VARs are typically ready to show those other images, as they've already vetted the other images). But at the end of the day, a lot of this is about practice--it takes experience for the VAR to be efficient and for the R to drive efficiency. Just like ARs having to adjust to when to delay (and not delay) OS flags, VARs and Rs need to learn to do the OFR effectively. The WC refs and VARs haven't done tons of VAR FIFA games. So much of what we see is an indication of the skills that they have learned (or not learned) in their domestic leagues. And the quality of implementation in the domestic leagues varies wildly.
 
I think this has a LOT more to do with the fact there is a very influential Brazilian in a high place on the FIFA referee committee. His influence has seemed to have an outsize influence on Sampaio's assignments this event than his actual ability.

Refereeing assignments at this level can be a strange beast at times. When it comes to Michael Oliver, if he wasn't going to be on the final then he probably wasn't going to stick around. I'm sure he doesn't need me to say this, but he can fly back to England knowing he had a phenomenal tournament and made a great account of himself. I won't be surprised in the least to see him with a very important game in North American come four year's time.
Two Brazilians on the list too.
 
Well, an AR can't "call" any offenses at all. The AR can only recommend the R makes the call. But that doesn't necessarily shift the concept here, as one can ask why the VAR can't recommend a call without the R seeing it. I think there are a few answers there. First, the VAR does recommend without the R's review on all "objective" calls. For judgment calls, we are often talking about a call that the R saw but made a different judgment from the VAR on what he saw. So if we are keeping the concept that the R makes all calls, then we would be asking the R to simply accept that he was completely wrong on what he saw, even though he was confident enough to make a call (or no call). And if we don't let the R have final say, that is a very deep change to many decades of the concept that the man in the middle owns every decision. And having VAR make the decisions alone, without the R, gives the R less control on the pitch, as the "eye in the sky" is "really" making all of the important decisions. And we couple that with the fact that the R is, in general, a more senior ref, so we'd be letting a more junior ref overrule the more experienced ref on the field. So I'm not sold on eliminating OFRs on subjective calls. (Though I could see a bit more flexibility where the R would have more discretion as to whether to go to the monitor or accept the VAR recommendation depending context and why the R did or did not make the call. But I think that is probably an evolution issue once Rs, VARs, teams, and fans are more linked in to the process.)

That said, the process can definitely be run in better and worse ways. I do think that MLS has been a leader in developing and implementing efficient processes on OFRs, including the images shown to the R. The MLS VAR is typically telling the R as he runs over what the first image is, and showing the best image(s) for the particular decision being reviewed. The MLS Rs are also typically good at owning the OFR and telling the VAR if there is another view they need to see to confirm the decision (and the skilled VARs are typically ready to show those other images, as they've already vetted the other images). But at the end of the day, a lot of this is about practice--it takes experience for the VAR to be efficient and for the R to drive efficiency. Just like ARs having to adjust to when to delay (and not delay) OS flags, VARs and Rs need to learn to do the OFR effectively. The WC refs and VARs haven't done tons of VAR FIFA games. So much of what we see is an indication of the skills that they have learned (or not learned) in their domestic leagues. And the quality of implementation in the domestic leagues varies wildly.
In short
The AR doesn't make the call. The R does. In the absence of a video the AR describes what he saw and the referee decides the outcome. When VAR recommends a review he can show the referee what he saw for the referee to make the call.
The guiding principle is that on all decisions, the referee makes the final decision.

For offsides and such that are objective and factual this can be done without review and on the say so of the other match officials as that was always the case before VAR.
 
I think this has a LOT more to do with the fact there is a very influential Brazilian in a high place on the FIFA referee committee. His influence has seemed to have an outsize influence on Sampaio's assignments this event than his actual ability.

Refereeing assignments at this level can be a strange beast at times. When it comes to Michael Oliver, if he wasn't going to be on the final then he probably wasn't going to stick around. I'm sure he doesn't need me to say this, but he can fly back to England knowing he had a phenomenal tournament and made a great account of himself. I won't be surprised in the least to see him with a very important game in North American come four year's time.

BTW if you doubt the power of politics, the three most powerful people on the committee are Collina (Italy), Al Raeesi (Qatar) and Seneme (Brazil). Those three nations had all four of their refs assigned to the first two days of the tournament. It would be Orsatos final but three Italians in six finals was too much even for Collina.
 
In a more obvious issue of bad luck, had naturalized American citizen Ismail Elfath been born in his current hometown of Austin, Texas instead of Casablanca, Morocco, he would almost certainly have been the referee for France-Morocco instead of Cesar Ramos.

Ramos should do every home Morocco friendly for free for the rest of his career to thank Elfath’s birth country for the biggest Cinderella run at a World Cup in two decades. He would have never got this assignment if it weren’t for Elfath being a native-born Moroccan.
 
In a more obvious issue of bad luck, had naturalized American citizen Ismail Elfath been born in his current hometown of Austin, Texas instead of Casablanca, Morocco, he would almost certainly have been the referee for France-Morocco instead of Cesar Ramos.

Ramos should do every home Morocco friendly for free for the rest of his career to thank Elfath’s birth country for the biggest Cinderella run at a World Cup in two decades. He would have never got this assignment if it weren’t for Elfath being a native-born Moroccan.
You reckon he's THAT good?
 
You reckon he's THAT good?

Well, I think on pure merit, Elfath was ahead of Ramos. So I think there is a pretty good chance that, but for the Morocco connection, he would have had one of the final three games (helped, as Ramos was, perhaps, by IFAB not wanting the optics of all UEFA refs on the final three games.
 
Well, I think on pure merit, Elfath was ahead of Ramos. So I think there is a pretty good chance that, but for the Morocco connection, he would have had one of the final three games (helped, as Ramos was, perhaps, by IFAB not wanting the optics of all UEFA refs on the final three games.

perhaps, but i dont feel like either are in the top three refs at the tournament let alone of those which are left
 
perhaps, but i dont feel like either are in the top three refs at the tournament let alone of those which are left
Tough for me to see the argument that Ramos was in the top three. But was Ramos the best non-UEFA ref that didn't have some form of conflict that made him a bad choice for the game? Could be.

(If Morocco loses, I think there is a good chance Elfath gets the 4O for the final.)
 
Tough for me to see the argument that Ramos was in the top three. But was Ramos the best non-UEFA ref that didn't have some form of conflict that made him a bad choice for the game? Could be.

(If Morocco loses, I think there is a good chance Elfath gets the 4O for the final.)
at this point, who we know has been sent home that makes sense. I don't think he's shown enough to deserve that potential appointment though, think plenty were surprised he got a knockout game at all (though admittedly he did well iirc)
 
perhaps, but i dont feel like either are in the top three refs at the tournament let alone of those which are left
But politics often has a big role for these assignments. I just don’t think UEFA crews on both semis and the final would fly. In fact, I know it didn’t, because it didn’t happen.

Then, we’ve seen Argentine referees work in the final twice before in the last 16 years. We also saw a Uruguayan (who, honestly, wasn’t that good) get a 2018 semi.

So that left Africa or CONCACAF. And by a pretty good margin, Elfath has the best tournament of that group on merit. If he didn’t have the conflict with Morocco being his birth country, he would have that game.

I’m not saying it’s 100% right, but FIFA is still a political organization. So with the combination of politics and merit, Elfath would have been the pick except for this very unusual situation.
 
But politics often has a big role for these assignments. I just don’t think UEFA crews on both semis and the final would fly. In fact, I know it didn’t, because it didn’t happen.

Then, we’ve seen Argentine referees work in the final twice before in the last 16 years. We also saw a Uruguayan (who, honestly, wasn’t that good) get a 2018 semi.

So that left Africa or CONCACAF. And by a pretty good margin, Elfath has the best tournament of that group on merit. If he didn’t have the conflict with Morocco being his birth country, he would have that game.

I’m not saying it’s 100% right, but FIFA is still a political organization. So with the combination of politics and merit, Elfath would have been the pick except for this very unusual situation.
It should be the best performing officiating team, regardless of where they are from. Unless of course they are from a county, or have links with a country, that are still in the tournament. Otherwise why even bother observing them, if they have made their minds up they might as well not bother. The two best performing quarter final referees went home, as did arguably the worst performing one, the at best third best one (who had an incorrect KMD stays). I wonder how they justify that to the officials, or perhaps they don't and just don't tell them any reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: es1
It should be the best performing officiating team, regardless of where they are from. Unless of course they are from a county, or have links with a country, that are still in the tournament. Otherwise why even bother observing them, if they have made their minds up they might as well not bother. The two best performing quarter final referees went home, as did arguably the worst performing one, the at best third best one (who had an incorrect KMD stays). I wonder how they justify that to the officials, or perhaps they don't and just don't tell them any reasons.
But here I the real world . . . Of course the evaluations matter a lot. But human events and political concerns are pretty significant. If it were truly only about merit, there would be more (and different) UEFA refs and fewer refs from a number of federations. But it‘s a World Cup, and there is a real expectation of refs from around the world. That said, I do think we’ve seen evidence in this WC that politics play too big of a role In some of the assignments. But I don’t see any chance that is going to change.
 
Back
Top