A&H

Foul leading to goal?

boulderdomb

Active Member
I thought this would have been a foul on Dundee #2 especially if he appealed? Can someone explain why it wasn't a foul? Had the player just given up due to score and didn't appeal?

To me it looks like he's being held down/pulled?

 
The Referee Store
There is more to this clip than it appears, the offside flag was also raised againgst the player who eventually got the ball.
Totally understand AR flagging and can also understand the referee allowing play to continue.
For me, the offside player did enough to interfere/impact for offside to be called.
 
Great spot and very interesting situation.
I also agree. Just because he pleads innocence by sticking his hands up doesn't mean he isn't getting in the way of the opponent.

I think he goes so close to the ball and is in the defender's path that he can be classed as making "an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball"...
 
This is the problem with how the game is refereed. When referees are more about 'staying out of the way' and 'doing what football expects', things like this are going to happen. The fact that nobody is appealing shouldn't matter.
But this is what happens when referee is no longer about applying the LOTG impartially but about sports entertainment and promotion.
When we're more worried about 'letting the game flow' than fairness.
It's a clear and blatant foul.
But the culture we have of not penalising this because the defender kept going means that referees actively encourage diving.
Heck, had the defender stopped and stood still in the usual 'shirt pull appeal' the ref probably would have given it! (personally I tend to not give those ones :p)
 
This is the problem with how the game is refereed. When referees are more about 'staying out of the way' and 'doing what football expects', things like this are going to happen. The fact that nobody is appealing shouldn't matter.
But this is what happens when referee is no longer about applying the LOTG impartially but about sports entertainment and promotion.
When we're more worried about 'letting the game flow' than fairness.
It's a clear and blatant foul.
But the culture we have of not penalising this because the defender kept going means that referees actively encourage diving.
Heck, had the defender stopped and stood still in the usual 'shirt pull appeal' the ref probably would have given it! (personally I tend to not give those ones :p)



Out of camera shot there was a charge of players to the ref after the goal, Dundee were rank rotten in this game and this was the 4th goal against them, their heads were so far down they were not going to protest too much, it was just a case of, ah well its simply not our night as it is.
Thoughts on the potential offside? (The ar flagged)
 
The AR did the right thing to flag. He should if he thinks there is a chance the PIOP may be deemed active by the referee.

Personally I don't think the PIOP actions impacted the defender so no offside for me. The defender slowed down first presumably due to the flag, then realised the ref is not blowing so had to hurry, and that is what the problem was, not the PIOP.
 
Out of camera shot there was a charge of players to the ref after the goal, Dundee were rank rotten in this game and this was the 4th goal against them, their heads were so far down they were not going to protest too much, it was just a case of, ah well its simply not our night as it is.
Thoughts on the potential offside? (The ar flagged)
Ah cheers.
I was hoping I could get away without offering an opinion on that ;-)
At first I was thinking no offside...but I've watched the replay, and we can see that the defender is having to take the last couple of steps around the PIOP - the PIOP cuts back into the field and the defender has to dodge to his right a bit before making the slide. So, that's interference for me.

Why are you calling the offside?
 
Ah cheers.
I was hoping I could get away without offering an opinion on that ;-)
At first I was thinking no offside...but I've watched the replay, and we can see that the defender is having to take the last couple of steps around the PIOP - the PIOP cuts back into the field and the defender has to dodge to his right a bit before making the slide. So, that's interference for me.

Why are you calling the offside?


Same reason for me, interference/impacted defenders playing ball
One of those, operating alone at grass roots, you would prob be giving it, probably even be giving it at all but the top levels.
 
Same reason for me, interference/impacted defenders playing ball
One of those, operating alone at grass roots, you would prob be giving it, probably even be giving it at all but the top levels.
Well, that AR disagrees that you wouldn't give it at the top levels.

One of those ones where if the offside is given immediately, nobody's going to talk about it after the game. Given there are 2 defenders there you're not expecting much. but if the ref wants to wait and talk about it later (or wait and let the VAR make a decision if a goal is scored, which definitely happens even though that's against the LOTG), then it goes from a questionable offside some distance out from goal with not much happening, to a questionable offside disallowing a goal and changing the match.
 
Well, that AR disagrees that you wouldn't give it at the top levels.

One of those ones where if the offside is given immediately, nobody's going to talk about it after the game. Given there are 2 defenders there you're not expecting much. but if the ref wants to wait and talk about it later (or wait and let the VAR make a decision if a goal is scored, which definitely happens even though that's against the LOTG), then it goes from a questionable offside some distance out from goal with not much happening, to a questionable offside disallowing a goal and changing the match.


The AR is perfectly correct to flag imo, as we know, his flagging is only his opinion that someone is offside and deserves to be penalised...the ref is entitled to do as he wishes with the flag.
If this was 0-0 and this was the only goal, huge discussion, as it was, as much as Dundee clearly wont have been delighted by it, it was just another reason to forget their performance and move on.
 
Well there wouldn't be a huge discussion if the whistle went straight away :)

It's a tricky one, and I wonder what the assessor would have to say about the ref overruling the AR here.

Personally, if the defender hadn't changed direction to get around the opponent I don't know that I could justify offside.....what are your thoughts there?
 
Screenshot_20181221-000742__01.jpg

The only thing that could possibly make this an interfering with apponent is the last dot point.

Did he make and action that 'clearly' impact the defender's ability to play the ball? I'd say no. I can see why you would say yes though. For me the defender would have played the ball the same way if PIOP wasn't there.
 
If an attacker in an offside position, who’s standing still from the moment the ball is last played by a teammate, stops a defender getting to the ball is it offside?
He’s not obscuring the defenders vision etc, his position seems means the defender can’t make the interception in time.
 
If an attacker in an offside position, who’s standing still from the moment the ball is last played by a teammate, stops a defender getting to the ball is it offside?
He’s not obscuring the defenders vision etc, his position seems means the defender can’t make the interception in time.

Yes.

It's further on in Law 11.2

In situations where:

  • a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent’s progress (e.g. blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12.

http://www.theifab.com/laws/offside-2018/chapters/offside-offence-2018
 
The only thing that could possibly make this an interfering with apponent is the last dot point.

Did he make and action that 'clearly' impact the defender's ability to play the ball? I'd say no. I can see why you would say yes though. For me the defender would have played the ball the same way if PIOP wasn't there.
I considered that, but then I also considered that given the defender was never able to control it, it may be that the small change in his run and angle from having to move around the PIOP is enough to make the difference. He would have played it the same way, but he could well have had a better outcome. We don't need certainty there, but it's enough to argue (for me) that there's an impact.
 
Back
Top