Foul Counts per Team
- Thread starter NOVARef
- Start date
Haha, no. Teams will try and persuade you that you're being unfair ("there's two teams here ref!"), but if one team is fouling and the other isn't, you're going to end up giving fouls and cards to just one team - it's not fair to imagine fouls for a team that's behaving just to try and even it up.
Before I start, I Totally agree.
However, sometimes when it is all one sided, it might work to your advantage just to find one for the other side to take the heat off a little.
That said, there is No hard and fast, if one team is just kicking the other side they are getting nothing found.
Thank you. I'm a newer ref and I'm doing more centers now and I always ask/insist on some feedback from y ARs who are normally much more experienced than I am and I often specifically ask about more foul recognition and consistency as this is were my confidence struggles the most with being the CR. On a few occasions I've received feedback that I called more fouls against Team A than Team B or something like that. I've even heard referees say that they didn't call a foul because of X, Y, and Z and then add that the foul count was lopsided as well...meaning it wasn't the deciding factor but it was certainly on their mind. But I agree that it shouldn't even cross my mind and it really hasn't because, as a newer ref, there is so much other stuff I focus on that I don't have the mental capacity at this time to also subconsciously track team fouls. Thanks again.
Makes sense. Thanks
one
RefChat Addict
Totally agree with @JamesL . But there is an art to it. You need to get the timing right. You need to minimise the impact to the 'low offending team'. Make sure you are not calling it because the opponent players asked for 'a fair go' (or it shouldn't appear that way), etc. Done correctly the whole game and hence both teams benefit from it.
Yes and no. Give a foul for nothing and you'll annoy the team that was previously fine with you, and one foul in isolation won't get the whining team off your back either.
A "softer" foul than you would normally give, sure. And if you're talking about a corner or FK into the box then it's usually easy to justify a foul if you really want to. But inventing one in open play where no one else can see why you've given it? That's just going to result in 22 player being angry with you rather than the 11 you had previously.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Mentioned it before, but, as an AR, I was asked by a referee to keep a foul count once, so that he could counter any accusations of bias with the cold hard 'facts'.
Not sure I agree with that logic, as we've said previously, if one team is on top or clearly the better team, you would expect them to commit less fouls.
Not sure I agree with that logic, as we've said previously, if one team is on top or clearly the better team, you would expect them to commit less fouls.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Not as outrageous as it sounds James.
Heard an EFL referee on one of the RA videos, say that he always tried to avoid giving any 'soft' or 'debateable' decisions to the away team early on in a match to avoid raising the temperature of the crowd and therefore the game.
See @one 's post whom has answered this perfectly.
I've even heard similar advice in a contrib debrief so it's being taught out there.
Not sure where I said invent one, finding one is a very different concept to inventing one.
It is an art, and there are so many trifling fouls we let go, you just give one of those.
I've tried and tested it so I dont buy your 11 vs 22 angry people, you manage a game well, control it, using a variety of techniques at our disposal, this being one, then it's entirely plausible to walk off with 22 handshakes and a decent observer mark to boot.
A retort I've used many times to the two teams jibe.
Two teams here ref
"Yes and one has the ball considerably more than the other and it's much harder to commit a foul when you've got it"
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I think another element to be wary of us is foul fatigue. When one team is playing much more physically than the other and regularly fouling, we can get tired of calling yet another foul on them. But we can't get lulled that way, as it means they "won" by being able to commit fouls that don't get called. (I've noticed this phenomenon more in basketball than soccer, but I don't think soccer is immune.)
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Indeed, easy to say/type, not so easy to do.
I've been involved in stupidly one sided games where the winning team STILL complain about trivia, even near the end of the match!
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Be VERY cautious with that. I’ve seen it backfire when a ref thought a game was over, and those little calls helped trigger a comeback.
100% agree with this and I've always been inclined this way
It's like 'safe refereeing' however. It has to be subtle. Done well, i'm sure it's a Match Control competency
I've had the pleasure of being an AR for an ex Championship referee, he did allude to something like this during our conversations. It's something as a L7 that has always stuck with me, not that I put it into practice at the moment.
But it's definitely a thing, I suppose it's giving the small ones in a defensive position just to keep a moany team happy, I don't know?
Thinking about this further
I haven't had my Report back yet, but I'll likely lose a mark for not Sin Binning a player on Saturday
Four nil down on 75 minutes, a losing player throws the ball down in frustration at a FT decision. It is the very first sign of dissent in the game. If the scores were close, I'd have sent the lad for a 10 minute sit down, guaranteed. But given the circumstances, I opted for a pubic dressing down with the Captain called in. There was zero further dissent in the game
It's similar to finding soft tackles for a losing team. I'm not really bothered how the observer viewed the incident. I know I'm not there to make friends, but my approach maintained full respect from both teams. In a sense, losing the point is like investing it, cos I'll get the point back (and maybe more) elsewhere in the report (although, sliding doors, this is difficult to know without playing out the rest of the game with the Sin Bin chosen)
Funny thing is, I knew I was likely to lose a mark at the time, but my principals seem more important to me... which is really quite peculiar
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
I've done similar, lower level game - 17/18 year olds school match.Thinking about this further
I haven't had my Report back yet, but I'll likely lose a mark for not Sin Binning a player on Saturday
Four nil down on 75 minutes, a losing player throws the ball down in frustration at a FT decision. It is the very first sign of dissent in the game. If the scores were close, I'd have sent the lad for a 10 minute sit down, guaranteed. But given the circumstances, I opted for a pubic dressing down with the Captain called in. There was zero further dissent in the game
It's similar to finding soft tackles for a losing team. I'm not really bothered how the observer viewed the incident. I know I'm not there to make friends, but my approach maintained full respect from both teams. In a sense, losing the point is like investing it, cos I'll get the point back (and maybe more) elsewhere in the report (although, sliding doors, this is difficult to know without playing out the rest of the game with the Sin Bin chosen)
Funny thing is, I knew I was likely to lose a mark at the time, but my principals seem more important to me... which is really quite peculiar
One team losing 6-0 and player commits a stupid foul and catches player halfway up the shin - 0-0 or closely fought game its a yellow all day long, but near the end of a one sided game I just told him I wasn't there to see players get hurt and to cut out that type of challenge - now this being a well behaved public school match, rather than my management skills was probably the reason that there were indeed no more stupid challenges like that!