Ref4Me

First Cup Final today

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Anubis

RefChat Addict
As above, enjoy is the most important

you have ( hopefully) been awarded it on merit so you have been considered worthy

Let the referee lead, on and off the pitch, ask, keep asking, listen, learn, concentrate.

away from all that, my own personal advice to linos on finals is, " dont give me anything i need to justify for the next 20 years"
We dont have the luxury of correcting ( most) errors, or freeze frame replays.
Keep things as simple and obvious and no surprises

ask, listen, focus, and enjoy.
 

Bonref34

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Was a good first final. Got most of the decisions right I think, was quite busy!

Got the very first one wrong between us, I paused as the ref had said take your time then he went the other way to me didn’t look great.

We had buzzer flags, never used them, nor had the ref. With hindsight would have been better not to use them to be honest, only started getting used to them in the second half.

All in all good game, thanks for the advice. Another cup final Thursday on the line and then in the middle for one on Saturday again!
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
This riles me, a ref who has never used buzzers, inexperienced ar, there is enough to deal with at a final without complicating things

no offence but like any tool, buzzers are only as good as the folk using them

onwards and upwards
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Buzzer flags - ref should brief you - but keep it simple.

Buzz when offside flag goes up, when the flag goes up behind the referee’s back, and if there is a very close ball out/goal (when you put your flag vertically before completing the signal).

Some refs ask not to buzz when they can obviously see you - but I don’t like that - it’s an extra complication.
 

Bonref34

New Member
Level 7 Referee
This riles me, a ref who has never used buzzers, inexperienced ar, there is enough to deal with at a final without complicating things

no offence but like any tool, buzzers are only as good as the folk using them

onwards and upwards

None taken, Exactly what I thought, I am in the middle next week for the same league, different cup, I think I’ll sack them off for my ARs
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Congrats, enjoy them.

I might miss mine as the referee for my semi-final caught covid, so I'm just relying on the COVID testing until the final at this point. Fingers crossed. =/
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I don't think "being a final" should be a reason not to use buzzers when available. Every assistant will have a "first game with buzzers" at some point, it's always going to be a learning experience.

And agree with Santa, there's no good reason to over-complicate the use of them even for more advanced AR's. Buzz for offside, fouls, subs and if you want to alert the referee to anything else they haven't seen. Works perfectly well at all levels.
 

Bonref34

New Member
Level 7 Referee
I don't think "being a final" should be a reason not to use buzzers when available. Every assistant will have a "first game with buzzers" at some point, it's always going to be a learning experience.

And agree with Santa, there's no good reason to over-complicate the use of them even for more advanced AR's. Buzz for offside, fouls, subs and if you want to alert the referee to anything else they haven't seen. Works perfectly well at all levels.

We got used to them in the end.

The ref had never used them so his instructions weren’t great and I was so focused on getting the decision right that I forgot to press the button a couple of times until later on. Just not something I particularly wanted to focus on but it worked well in second half.

I think rather than scrap them for my final I will make me instructions clear and not ‘rely’ on them.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think "being a final" should be a reason not to use buzzers when available. Every assistant will have a "first game with buzzers" at some point, it's always going to be a learning experience.

And agree with Santa, there's no good reason to over-complicate the use of them even for more advanced AR's. Buzz for offside, fouls, subs and if you want to alert the referee to anything else they haven't seen. Works perfectly well at all levels.
I would agree with you if the assistants haven't used them before, but there's no way I would advocate a referee using them for the first time in a cup final. As happened in this case, he won't be aware of the nuances of using them, won't give proper instructions to the ARs, and risks being distracted.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Was a good first final. Got most of the decisions right I think, was quite busy!

Got the very first one wrong between us, I paused as the ref had said take your time then he went the other way to me didn’t look great.

We had buzzer flags, never used them, nor had the ref. With hindsight would have been better not to use them to be honest, only started getting used to them in the second half.

All in all good game, thanks for the advice. Another cup final Thursday on the line and then in the middle for one on Saturday again!

Step 7 title decider with me in the middle 2 weeks ago. Level 4 ref very kindly offered me the use of his buzzers. Used them loads as AR but never as a ref. Not the time to learn so I politely declined. Enough on the game without more potential issues.

Away side beat their local rivals 3-0 which secured the title on their last fixture of the season. Sods law there was an offside I didn't pick up on with the AR flagging for ages before I did, but at 3-0 and getting the correct decision in the end nobody cared
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Step 7 title decider with me in the middle 2 weeks ago. Level 4 ref very kindly offered me the use of his buzzers. Used them loads as AR but never as a ref. Not the time to learn so I politely declined. Enough on the game without more potential issues.

Away side beat their local rivals 3-0 which secured the title on their last fixture of the season. Sods law there was an offside I didn't pick up on with the AR flagging for ages before I did, but at 3-0 and getting the correct decision in the end nobody cared
Sounds like in hindsight, it was a pretty straightforward 3-0 and would actually have been a great opportunity to get some experience with the buzzers?

Referees love to study form/league tables and use their experience with teams to predict how a game will go, but I'm sure I've heard more wrong predictions than correct ones. Two of my last games this season were supposed to be one-sided walkovers according to other officials I was working with, but neither of them worked out that way until well into the second half. And I also recall being recently warned by an AR that a team's striker likes to draw in fouls and go down easy - we got in at half time and I thanked him for pointing the number 9 out as I had been able to wave away a few soft appeals, to which his response was "oh no, it was the number 5 I was talking about, he's playing in midfield today"!

Anything can happen in any game. If you insist on waiting for the perfect opportunity to use them, they'll just gather dust in the bottom of your bag for years until you retire.
 
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Anubis

RefChat Addict
We got Away side beat their local rivals 3-0 which secured the title on their last fixture of the season. Sods law there was an offside I didn't pick up on with the AR flagging for ages before I did, but at 3-0 and getting the correct decision in the end nobody cared

moral of story.....

awareness of your Ars at all times. Basics. That way, even in times to come, with buzzers, they fail mid match, hey presto, you are alert to the flag regardless

buzzers are an add on to what should be our usual performance.
 
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es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
moral of story.....

awareness of your Ars at all times. Basics. That way, even in times to come, with buzzers, they fail mid match, hey presto, you are alert to the flag regardless

buzzers are an add on to what should be our usual performance.

one thing to note though is that i assume this was one @Bonref34's first game's with NARs? missing an AR who's raised their flag when you're not expecting it is very easy to do, a few things to note:

positioning - making sure your active NAR are in your eyeline as much as possible. this can be achieved by keeping play between you and your NAR as much as feasibly possible.
awareness - actively looking at them to see if their flag is raised, even if you're not expecting it, but obviously while not taking your eyes off the main action (this is where buzzers can help massively)
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
This is something I've flagged many times before, referees shouldn't be using buzzers until they already have significant experience of working with neutral assistants Knowing when to look at your ARs is an art and skill that takes time to get right, and if you rely on technology you will never learn it properly. What then happens is the technology breaks down, and your ARs spend half of the game with their flag up and not being seen. Happened to me loads when I was on the line, and I've also seen it many times as an observer.

Even when I started using buzzers I would deliberately leave them at home every 4 or 5 games so I was forced to work without technology. Usually on a WPL or WSL game where it was less likely for something to happen off the ball, and also the ARs would typically be much less used to working with buzzers than the L4s I worked with on contrib games were.
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
This is something I've flagged many times before, referees shouldn't be using buzzers until they already have significant experience of working with neutral assistants Knowing when to look at your ARs is an art and skill that takes time to get right, and if you rely on technology you will never learn it properly. What then happens is the technology breaks down, and your ARs spend half of the game with their flag up and not being seen. Happened to me loads when I was on the line, and I've also seen it many times as an observer.

Even when I started using buzzers I would deliberately leave them at home every 4 or 5 games so I was forced to work without technology. Usually on a WPL or WSL game where it was less likely for something to happen off the ball, and also the ARs would typically be much less used to working with buzzers than the L4s I worked with on contrib games were.

this

word for word

What happens though is a desire to look flash. Its a huge ( refereeing) gripe of mine.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Look flash? With the subtle buzzer technology allowing discreet signals?

The one thing buzzers aren't is flashy!
 
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