A&H

First Assessment

T

TomtheRef 1

New Member
Level 4 Referee
Hi all,

had my first assessment on the 5-4 scheme on the weekend and got 71 overall. Some useful feedback but just wondered if that actor is any good? I know the average required is 70 across the season and as a first score seems solid with some easy development. The assessor didn’t listen to my match instructions due to turning up late and therefore only Scored me a 3 in that section which was disappointing.
 
The Referee Store
Its above the required mark so yes it is good. Observers aren't supposed to listen to pre-match instructions at the minute due to Covid, and indeed at step 6 and above they are prohibited from doing so. The same as they can't do a debrief in the changing room and rather have to do it after via a Teams / Zoom call.

Not something I agree with, strikes me as bizarre that I can't talk to a referee in the open air but I could then go to the pub with them after or even a nightclub. I guess, a bit like the blood pressure test requirement for the fitness test, it is an arse covering exercise for the FA.
 
If you get standard expected across the board on that scheme you get a 60, so a 71 is a good starting point.

Look at the development points and see how you can improve.
 
RustyRef said:
Its above the required mark so yes it is good. Observers aren't supposed to listen to pre-match instructions at the minute due to Covid, and indeed at step 6 and above they are prohibited from doing so. The same as they can't do a debrief in the changing room and rather have to do it after via a Teams / Zoom call.

Not something I agree with, strikes me as bizarre that I can't talk to a referee in the open air but I could then go to the pub with them after or even a nightclub. I guess, a bit like the blood pressure test requirement for the fitness test, it is an arse covering exercise for the FA.
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I thought some of that was relaxed?
Not allowed in changing rooms and still virtual Debrief but are now allowed to touch base and hear pre match if outside.
 
JamesL said:
I thought some of that was relaxed?
Not allowed in changing rooms and still virtual Debrief but are now allowed to touch base and hear pre match if outside.
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Our supply league advisor has said that pre-match is still to be done by email notes. Although the FA guidance doesn't touch on that and just talks about post-match.

I won't be doing any supply league observations until the ban on debriefs at the ground is removed. The only window I have to write the reports is Sunday morning, and I found that it was often Sunday evening or even Monday before I could get all three officials on a conference call. Might be a London thing with all of the shift and strange hours work, but if I can't do the debrief on Saturday evening I'm stuck.
 
RustyRef said:
Our supply league advisor has said that pre-match is still to be done by email notes. Although the FA guidance doesn't touch on that and just talks about post-match.

I won't be doing any supply league observations until the ban on debriefs at the ground is removed. The only window I have to write the reports is Sunday morning, and I found that it was often Sunday evening or even Monday before I could get all three officials on a conference call. Might be a London thing with all of the shift and strange hours work, but if I can't do the debrief on Saturday evening I'm stuck.
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Guidance we got at our league meeting was that the pre match stuff could happen from August 16th, but the FA planned to keep the post match debrief remote at a mutually agreeable time and they didn't see that being relaxed.

Personally I prefer to get it done 10 minutes or so after the game in the changing room whilst everything fresh in my mind, rather than waiting overnight to have to do it.
 
Justylove said:
Guidance we got at our league meeting was that the pre match stuff could happen from August 16th, but the FA planned to keep the post match debrief remote at a mutually agreeable time and they didn't see that being relaxed.

Personally I prefer to get it done 10 minutes or so after the game in the changing room whilst everything fresh in my mind, rather than waiting overnight to have to do it.
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Agreed. My final observation (6-5) came 24 hours after the game. I'd been out that night for a meal and then worked the next day and most of the game had evaporated from my memory apart from the big moments. Not any reflection of the observer, he had places to go straight after the gane and I was out in the evening, just seemed daft that I was able to be on the field with 22 blokes for 90 mins but couldn't have a socially distanced chat straight afterwards with the observer.
 
@RustyRef @Justylove @JamesL - At the recent round of Level 4 briefing from the FA (last Monday 2nd for me), they were clear that attending the pre-match briefing was allowed by FA regulations. The advice for it to conducted outdoors and the de-brief online.

They said that there should be no immediate post match contact, other than to confirm the cautions / dismissal that the referee had. Not to discuss enquiry into their accuracy at that time. Just fact finding - the other option was to get the referee to email them to you in advance of the debrief.

The latest comment was that a majority of the L4 referees preferred the online debrief, the observers felt they do better prepare for them (given the extra time) and the clubs did, as they weren't hanging around for the debrief to conclude and the referee get changed. I hate to say this, but inline debriefs may be the way forward.
 
lincs22 said:
The latest comment was that a majority of the L4 referees preferred the online debrief, the observers felt they do better prepare for them (given the extra time) and the clubs did, as they weren't hanging around for the debrief to conclude and the referee get changed. I hate to say this, but inline debriefs may be the way forward.
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that's really disappointing. everything is so much clearer straight after the game
 
lincs22 said:
@RustyRef @Justylove @JamesL - At the recent round of Level 4 briefing from the FA (last Monday 2nd for me), they were clear that attending the pre-match briefing was allowed by FA regulations. The advice for it to conducted outdoors and the de-brief online.

They said that there should be no immediate post match contact, other than to confirm the cautions / dismissal that the referee had. Not to discuss enquiry into their accuracy at that time. Just fact finding - the other option was to get the referee to email them to you in advance of the debrief.

The latest comment was that a majority of the L4 referees preferred the online debrief, the observers felt they do better prepare for them (given the extra time) and the clubs did, as they weren't hanging around for the debrief to conclude and the referee get changed. I hate to say this, but inline debriefs may be the way forward.
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Not sure where they got that the majority of L4 referees preferred the online debrief.

I don't recall ever being asked/polled as to my opinion on the matter, and none of the other L4's I've spoken to have either.
 
Justylove said:
Not sure where they got that the majority of L4 referees preferred the online debrief.

I don't recall ever being asked/polled as to my opinion on the matter, and none of the other L4's I've spoken to have either.
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I said it so it must be true 🙄🤣
 
lincs22 said:
@RustyRef @Justylove @JamesL - At the recent round of Level 4 briefing from the FA (last Monday 2nd for me), they were clear that attending the pre-match briefing was allowed by FA regulations. The advice for it to conducted outdoors and the de-brief online.

They said that there should be no immediate post match contact, other than to confirm the cautions / dismissal that the referee had. Not to discuss enquiry into their accuracy at that time. Just fact finding - the other option was to get the referee to email them to you in advance of the debrief.

The latest comment was that a majority of the L4 referees preferred the online debrief, the observers felt they do better prepare for them (given the extra time) and the clubs did, as they weren't hanging around for the debrief to conclude and the referee get changed. I hate to say this, but inline debriefs may be the way forward.
Click to expand...

The problem I found is that you can't do it on Saturday night as at least one of the officials will be working or going out. At least one is refereeing or working on the Sunday, so the absolute earliest I've been able to do it is Sunday evening. I've always written my reports on Saturday night and / or Sunday mornings, I can't do them during the week as I work long hours, hence why I don't observe midweek. So this completely kills it for me, and I know that I'm not the only supply / contrib league observer in this position.

If we were in lockdown I would completely understand it, but we aren't. Chances are the reason it can't be done on Saturday evening is one or more of the officials is going out to a packed pub, yet we aren't allowed in the open air socially distanced to discuss the game that had just finished. It just makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Justylove said:
Not sure where they got that the majority of L4 referees preferred the online debrief.

I don't recall ever being asked/polled as to my opinion on the matter, and none of the other L4's I've spoken to have either.
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Talk to your Step 5/6 Referees Representative and let her/she know your thoughts. At the first National meeting I attended there was NO dissenting voices to the online debrief continuing.
No one from my group has contacted me on any subject since my appointment was announced. Maybe this will start the ball rolling?
 
Yampy said:
Talk to your Step 5/6 Referees Representative and let her/she know your thoughts. At the first National meeting I attended there was NO dissenting voices to the online debrief continuing.
No one from my group has contacted me on any subject since my appointment was announced. Maybe this will start the ball rolling?
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Good advice thanks!

I'll drop him a note!
 
Yampy said:
Talk to your Step 5/6 Referees Representative and let her/she know your thoughts. At the first National meeting I attended there was NO dissenting voices to the online debrief continuing.
No one from my group has contacted me on any subject since my appointment was announced. Maybe this will start the ball rolling?
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When you pass that fitness test @es1, will you be contacting me on the matter?
 
Justylove said:
Not sure where they got that the majority of L4 referees preferred the online debrief.

I don't recall ever being asked/polled as to my opinion on the matter, and none of the other L4's I've spoken to have either.
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It was from the FA trials, and said by the tutor on the course. So it may have only been a small sample of referees, or even from the 2B group. But the FA seemed to think this is what people wanted.
If you don't, get in touch via your referee group. The FA will only change if they have to. Remember, the observers have an older profile with a lot being retired, so they may be thinking about our health.

@RustyRef - I think your like me, having to work casues problems. Not an issue for the retired observers or those on the FA payroll, as they have all the free time in the world!
 
RustyRef said:
The problem I found is that you can't do it on Saturday night as at least one of the officials will be working or going out
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I have this today with my game which I am an Assistant on. I'm straight off to work after the match and have a game tomorrow and work again! so I wonder when my debrief will be done if he looks at me.
 
TomtheRef 1 said:
Hi all,

had my first assessment on the 5-4 scheme on the weekend and got 71 overall. Some useful feedback but just wondered if that actor is any good? I know the average required is 70 across the season and as a first score seems solid with some easy development. The assessor didn’t listen to my match instructions due to turning up late and therefore only Scored me a 3 in that section which was disappointing.
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Tom,

This is a solid start. Effectively, four more scores like that and you will have achieved the observation criteria. Assuming you always tick the other 5 to 4 boxes (attendance at a workshop, LOTG, fitness test, number of eligible middles & lines) this would enable your County FA to nominate you to the FA for consideration as an L4.

However, those county nominations are done in rank order and the FA will only take as many new L4s as they need in your area. So it's in your interest to average as highly as possible as this will play a major role in pushing you up that ranking list.

Best of luck
 
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