Ref4Me

Few minor struggles

A6ref

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Hi all. Great forum learnt loads

Just looking for some general advice .

Done 4 games now gone well.

The main 2 issues am struggling with is

1 off side finding this really difficult and as you cant imagine no matter what call your making 1 team won't be happy am confident am getting it right most times but whats the best approach. Am constantly checking the last mans position when I know play is building up and I think a ball will be played through so my view is back and forth between the ball and the last man so am worried I may miss a tackle if my view cant watch both at same time . Any general advice thanks

2 am not talking dissent but when players question a decision asking for an explanation am finding myself explaining every decision even as play has re started dont want to appear rude. However I've now just started saying I've given what I've seen get on with it is that a better approach.

Also as a final thing in yesterday's game a player felt he was fouled in my view not as he got up he said me in passing "am going to f##king snap some one" I stopped played and sin binned him he started to argue again saying it wasn't dissent . I did think could have a red for abusive language. Just woundering how others feel red maybe or ignore it all together ? Most people seemed supprised I had dealt with this

More to my supprise most didnt seemed to know about sin bins rules . Adult 11 a side
 
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Anubis

RefChat Addict
on point 1, the bottom line is its near impossible to call every offside correctly, so as much as we strive for perfection, dont let it play on your mind too much
The top guys on the line dont get every call correct so what chance does a referee have operating alone.
Its long been ditched as official practise but the age old diagonal system has its merits, getting wide, giving yourself a look or at least an angle across the line.
it does involve a lot of running though.
Looking down barrel of gun at offside calls wont mean you get them all wrong, you can only do the best you can.
Heres a tip thats better demonstrated on a field than written online, it wont get you out of every hole but it might give you a chance...

you watching what you can, the last defender, the ball about to be played, your not in a great position but your instinct or from what you can see smells of offisde.......delay your whistle by a split second, sprint to a wider angle, blow as you run...
the perception will then be you have a better view than you did at the point in your mind that you were initially going to blow.
wont bail you out everytime but might do you a turn
 

Justylove

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
Hi all. Great forum learnt loads

Just looking for some general advice .

Done 4 games now gone well.

The main 2 issues am struggling with is

1 off side finding this really difficult and as you cant imagine no matter what call your making 1 team won't be happy am confident am getting it right most times but whats the best approach. Am constantly checking the last mans position when I know play is building up and I think a ball will be played through so my view is back and forth between the ball and the last man so am worried I may miss a tackle if my view cant watch both at same time . Any general advice thanks

2 am not talking dissent but when players question a decision asking for an explanation am finding myself explaining every decision even as play has re started dont want to appear rude. However I've now just started saying I've given what I've seen get on with it is that a better approach.

Also as a final thing in yesterday's game a player felt he was fouled in my view not as he got up he said me in passing "am going to f##king snap some one" I stopped played and sin binned him he started to argue again saying it wasn't dissent . I did think could have a red for abusive language. Just woundering how others feel red maybe or ignore it all together ? Most people seemed supprised I had dealt with this

More to my supprise most didnt seemed to know about sin bins rules . Adult 11 a side

1) depending on where you are in the UK, you may have Club Assistants that are calling offside or not. I'm guessing from your post that it's likely to be the latter. If so, it's a case of hedging your bets on positioning and penalising when you can - typically when it's a really obvious one. In the really tight marginal ones, unless you are bang in line, reality is you are going to be guessing anyway, so play on!

2) This type of low level dissent can be like Chinese Water Torture, in isolation not too bad, but the build up of it drags you down. It's up to you to decide where the line is drawn. A short, courteous factual reply to a question is fine, but when it then turns into a player wanting to discuss further that's when you need to clamp down. Whistle the player in and be clear that you've answered the question and it's not now up for debate. If they then want to continue, that gives you the chance to move towards a caution for dissent. It also has the added deterrent effect (hopefully) on other players, or helps you sell the caution if they don't get the message.

3) Doesn't sound like a caution to me, certainly not for dissent. For me, get the player in, isolate him and have a word. Take your time, nice and slow. Gives him time to hopefully lose the red most and calm down. The added bonus is that if he doesn't calm down and starts giving you stick, you can then do him for dissent or worse.
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
1) depending on where you are in the UK, you may have Club Assistants that are calling offside or not. I'm guessing from your post that it's likely to be the latter. If so, it's a case of hedging your bets on positioning and penalising when you can - typically when it's a really obvious one. In the really tight marginal ones, unless you are bang in line, reality is you are going to be guessing anyway, so play on!

2) This type of low level dissent can be like Chinese Water Torture, in isolation not too bad, but the build up of it drags you down. It's up to you to decide where the line is drawn. A short, courteous factual reply to a question is fine, but when it then turns into a player wanting to discuss further that's when you need to clamp down. Whistle the player in and be clear that you've answered the question and it's not now up for debate. If they then want to continue, that gives you the chance to move towards a caution for dissent. It also has the added deterrent effect (hopefully) on other players, or helps you sell the caution if they don't get the message.

3) Doesn't sound like a caution to me, certainly not for dissent. For me, get the player in, isolate him and have a word. Take your time, nice and slow. Gives him time to hopefully lose the red most and calm down. The added bonus is that if he doesn't calm down and starts giving you stick, you can then do him for dissent or worse.


point 3 is not as straightforward as that, absolutely its not dissent
Thinly veiled or not, its a threat.
Big picture, five mins later, he cements an opponent,
the red cardis the easy part next, sewing the opponents leg back on and him having 8 weeks off work is not
You then be kinda haunted by his words.....
 

Justylove

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
point 3 is not as straightforward as that, absolutely its not dissent
Thinly veiled or not, its a threat.
Big picture, five mins later, he cements an opponent,
the red cardis the easy part next, sewing the opponents leg back on and him having 8 weeks off work is not
You then be kinda haunted by his words.....
Assuming you want him off the pitch because of the chance of that. You can either sin bin him for dissent or send him off.

The only potential direct send off could be OFFINABUS, but for me that's a massive stretch. You certainly can't do him for VC.

That's why I would advocate getting him in. He's either going to calm down (which you'll be able to tell with his body language and demeanor) OR he's not and is then going to say or do something which you can act on.

How would you apply the LOTG in this instance?
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
Also as a final thing in yesterday's game a player felt he was fouled in my view not as he got up he said me in passing "am going to f##king snap some one"

That's up to him.

It's not dissent so shouldn't have been a Sin Bin, but you could have blown the whistle, stopped the game and cautioned him for USB (either AA or "Other".

If it'd been me, I'd have said something like "Be very careful player, that's exactly what my red card is for!!" ;)
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Point three is a you have to be there. It's obvious he said it in protest of your decision not giving him the foul. It wasn't to any specific player but to you. So it can easily be dissent. He needs to cool off and you don't know if he is going to follow through with what he said.
The better option is to have a strong word with him but in a very calm manner to make him aware of the consequences of any silly stuff. And then watch him for the 5 or so minutes. You may want to have the captain present for that talk.
The other option is dependent on the temperature of the game and how he has been behaving up to then, bin him for dissent.
 
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Justylove

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
Point three is a you have to be there. It's obvious he said it in protest of your decision not giving him the foul. It wasn't to any specific player but to you. So it can easily be dissent.
The LOTG defines dissent as:

Public protest or disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official’s decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card)

Based on what the OP has written it can't "easily" be dissent, however a referee could "lawyer" it into fitting into that category in order to issue a sin bin and get them off the field, at least temporarily.
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
Assuming you want him off the pitch because of the chance of that. You can either sin bin him for dissent or send him off.

The only potential direct send off could be OFFINABUS, but for me that's a massive stretch. You certainly can't do him for VC.

That's why I would advocate getting him in. He's either going to calm down (which you'll be able to tell with his body language and demeanor) OR he's not and is then going to say or do something which you can act on.

How would you apply the LOTG in this instance?


Obv need be there, weigh up the scene.
On first thoughts, again, depending on how you took the comments, I might be like, ' great, thanks for the heads up, rest assured if you do it i will make sure its known it was premeditated'
or if scene feels diff then simply tell him not to be so silly, i get we all say sillly things in heat of the moment, now settle down'

total agree the reds a hard sell but not impossible, again depending on how you read the situation at the time

suppose could open a can of worms, replace the 'fcuking snap someone', for, ' fking snap you'.

its def not dissent for me but like the potential red, you could make it fit
 
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one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
The LOTG defines dissent as:

Public protest or disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official’s decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card)

Based on what the OP has written it can't "easily" be dissent, however a referee could "lawyer" it into fitting into that category in order to issue a sin bin and get them off the field, at least temporarily.

Here is the op


a player felt he was fouled in my view not as he got up he said me in passing "am going to f##king snap some one"

I don't see how this is not a verbal protest of the referee's decision. This is not him being angry with 'a player'. He is angry with the referee. Easy dissent for me. Obviously this is how I am reading it (and I have had this type of reaction many times). Others may read it differently.
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Hi all. Great forum learnt loads

Just looking for some general advice .

Done 4 games now gone well.

The main 2 issues am struggling with is

1 off side finding this really difficult and as you cant imagine no matter what call your making 1 team won't be happy am confident am getting it right most times but whats the best approach. Am constantly checking the last mans position when I know play is building up and I think a ball will be played through so my view is back and forth between the ball and the last man so am worried I may miss a tackle if my view cant watch both at same time . Any general advice thanks

2 am not talking dissent but when players question a decision asking for an explanation am finding myself explaining every decision even as play has re started dont want to appear rude. However I've now just started saying I've given what I've seen get on with it is that a better approach.

Also as a final thing in yesterday's game a player felt he was fouled in my view not as he got up he said me in passing "am going to f##king snap some one" I stopped played and sin binned him he started to argue again saying it wasn't dissent . I did think could have a red for abusive language. Just woundering how others feel red maybe or ignore it all together ? Most people seemed supprised I had dealt with this

More to my supprise most didnt seemed to know about sin bins rules . Adult 11 a side

1. Offside.

If are in an area which does not allow the use of Club Assistants, or does allow them but does not permit them to do offside, then there are a few key factors you need to do;

A) Look across the backline towards the strikers like you're doing now. This is correct, however, my advice is only to do this when the player in possession is not under pressure and won't be challenged. If there is pressure, your priority is the foul/unfolding situation, in which case, offside is a secondary concern. You absolutely do not want to be missing a two footer that snaps someone's head off, because you were looking at a potential offside.

B) Try to position yourself wide, heading towards the touchlines depending on where play is unfolding. This will give you the opportunity to look across the line of play rather than square-on. Even with wide positioning though, it will be fairly difficult to call, you will be guessimating quite a bit.

C) Try to work out the patterns of attacking and defensive plays ASAP. If a team is holding a fairly high line, you know you need to be quick to look across, think about field markings that might help - the halfway line for example, if teams play a high line you'll find the attacking team will always claim they came from their own half.

Consider attacking plays, if the fullbacks are launching the ball long, consider that you may need to get wide and take a position a bit further up the field in anticipation of this long ball - which, some savvy teams do repeatedly knowing that if you're on a general patrol path you'll be too close to the fullback to give an offside with any credibility 9/10.

Watch the strikers, if you see him casually loitering about 10 yards offside and making no effort to get on even as play progresses, then you can say with some confidence that he's going to be offside if he even looks a bit off. On the other hand, if you can see a striker moving in between the lines and defenders at will, then you'll know you need to take a stronger look. Also consider defensive positioning, not necessarily the centrebacks - these guys are easy. You want to look at the fullbacks once in a while. It's ALWAYS a number 2 or a number 3 fullback that happens to never stay in line with the rest of the defence. If there's a fullback doing this, you know to immediately look for him when an offside shout happens, that way you can point at him and say 'Look, he's playing him on!' and that's the end of it.


Of course, if you're a new referee, I would say prioritise your foul detection and positioning for now and once you have a handle on that, start exploring your movement/watching for offside, it's all small steps forward as they say.

2. Questioning of decisions.

Here's an early trick observers will tell you (area dependant!)

Blow the whistle, signal the foul, then unless you're cautioning the player, you jog/run to the next position. So, foul on the halfway line? He's going to punt it forward, so go forward and take up the offside line. Don't entertain the players, don't be there for them to come and hassle you, foul, off you go. If they come to you, 'go away please', if they persist, yellow card dissent, nice and easy. You'll find, when you move away, only the most blockheaded players will chase you, because to do so is to leave his position unattended and suddenly the opposition have a nice ball into the box where he's supposed to be.

For 9/10 decisions, you just say 'foul' and move on. Don't get into explaining it, unless the decision you've made is a fairly technical one or you need to make an explanation so everyone is clear on a matter (i.e. two cautions at once). Anything else, they're just needling you to make you doubt yourself and stumble on your words, so they can later claim injustice or say you haven't a clue!

Don't let them get into it, you're not being rude, you're focusing on the game, the moment you get distracted explaining then, trouble can start.

That's my take on it, hopefully that is of some use for you, you don't have to follow any of it, take the bits you like/find helpful. :)
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
"am going to f##king snap some one"
Depending on the tone, whether I though the player held any intent and depending upon which ears this threat was caught by, I'd be inclined to get rid of this player there and then
In many games (if not most), I'm confidently betting this threat will otherwise lead to 'loss of Match Control'. Very thin ice... in a heat-wave
 
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santa sangria

RefChat Addict
I preach about getting really wide to view offsides. It can be a great way to see and get credibility with players. But it’s also a risk and you need to be able to run. It is great practice for diagonal movement.

Alternatively I know a lot of referees that stick to the center circle or thereabouts because they are comfortable calling offside from there. Personally I don’t like it but it works for some.

Roboda gives great advice:)
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
I tell captains at the toss that I probably will get offside decisions wrong, on the basis that at the time the ball is played I might well be looking in completely the opposite direction to the offside line. That's especially the case when play is in the defensive third and someone clumps it long, doesn't matter how good a referee you are they are impossible to judge. By the time you've spun around the position of players could have completely changed from when the ball was played.
 

Justylove

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
I tell captains at the toss that I probably will get offside decisions wrong, on the basis that at the time the ball is played I might well be looking in completely the opposite direction to the offside line. That's especially the case when play is in the defensive third and someone clumps it long, doesn't matter how good a referee you are they are impossible to judge. By the time you've spun around the position of players could have completely changed from when the ball was played.
How does that go down at Supply League level....?
 

wazztie16

Level 5 Referee
Level 5 Referee
point 3 is not as straightforward as that, absolutely its not dissent
Thinly veiled or not, its a threat.
Big picture, five mins later, he cements an opponent,
the red cardis the easy part next, sewing the opponents leg back on and him having 8 weeks off work is not
You then be kinda haunted by his words.....
Could it be a yellow for USB and a stern warning that you've heard the 'threat' and won't tolerate it?
 

Justylove

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 4 Referee
Could it be a yellow for USB and a stern warning that you've heard the 'threat' and won't tolerate it?
That doesn't really solve the problem. At that point he's still on the FOP, unless it's a second yellow of course and you can sack him off.
 

wazztie16

Level 5 Referee
Level 5 Referee
That doesn't really solve the problem. At that point he's still on the FOP, unless it's a second yellow of course and you can sack him off.
True, I'm just thinking it's very rare that anyone would go through with such a threat in reality, it's a tough one.
 
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