The Ref Stop

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The Ref Stop
Jed said:
My local youth league appoints refs to youth games to u11 and above, but with the no heading rule may avoid taking u11 games (I already tend to leave them as hate standard of football and feel like you learn nothing from them nor challenge yourself)
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U11 won't have a ban on deliberate heading until the 2026-27 season. So you have 2 seasons to enjoy it! (unless your league voluntarily implements it sooner which is allowed according to the FA)
 
Runner Ref said:
I wouldn't agree. We're there to officiate a football match. It's the managers/coaches jobs to teach them. If they aren't showing them this stuff in training, that's their problem. That's not to say pull up every u10 match for a slight foul throw, but we aren't necessarily there to coach people.

It's a very noble thing to show them. But all it takes is 1 manager who doesn't want you doing it and you look rather silly.
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I guess that is a matter of league guidance as well as opinion. I think development is important at that age, and my league encourages their officials to aid this process. Some leagues won't though.
 
Gabriel said:
I guess that is a matter of league guidance as well as opinion. I think development is important at that age, and my league encourages their officials to aid this process. Some leagues won't though.
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The league cannot guide you on laws of the game. This is similar yo leagues a few years back trying to ask referees to award free kicks of some didn't 'put a name on it'
 
Runner Ref said:
The league cannot guide you on laws of the game. This is similar yo leagues a few years back trying to ask referees to award free kicks of some didn't 'put a name on it'
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They aren't telling us what we can & can't do related to the LOTG. They just make it clear mini-soccer is development football and then leave us to it. I interpret this as an encouragement by choice. I'd do it anyway.
The following is taken from an officials guidance document published by the FA and Hampshire FA (not my CFA) in November 2020:
Furthermore, referees should also recognise their role is to facilitate the learning of the players, forexample, allow young children to take a second attempt at a throw-in if the first attempt is not with theLaws of the Game.
This could easily be interpreted to mean show them how to do it also, as common sense is to do so before the retake. The first bit supports my argument for aiding development, as the FA themselves have said we should do this.
 
Gabriel said:
They aren't telling us what we can & can't do related to the LOTG. They just make it clear mini-soccer is development football and then leave us to it. I interpret this as an encouragement by choice. I'd do it anyway.
The following is taken from an officials guidance document published by the FA and Hampshire FA (not my CFA) in November 2020:
Furthermore, referees should also recognise their role is to facilitate the learning of the players, forexample, allow young children to take a second attempt at a throw-in if the first attempt is not with theLaws of the Game.
This could easily be interpreted to mean show them how to do it also, as common sense is to do so before the retake. The first bit supports my argument for aiding development, as the FA themselves have said a0we should do this.
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Nope, this is being a busy body. Allow the 2nd throw by all means, but it is not your job to coach. How would you feel if the coach started to referee?
 
Runner Ref said:
How would you feel if the coach started to referee?
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Annoyed. But that's completely different. I would also point out that after 1 mini soccer game earlier this season, where I made a point of explaining how to take the throws, both sets of coaches thanked me and said most don't do that but should (their words exactly) and the league's ref secretary who happened to be on the pitch next to me also pointed it out in a positive, congratulatory way. If you don't think it's ok, that's fine, it's your opinion. But I like to do it and I won't stop unless I get a call from The IFAB saying stop.
 
Gabriel said:
Annoyed. But that's completely different. I would also point out that after 1 mini soccer game earlier this season, where I made a point of explaining how to take the throws, both sets of coaches thanked me and said most don't do that but should (their words exactly) and the league's ref secretary who happened to be on the pitch next to me also pointed it out in a positive, congratulatory way. If you don't think it's ok, that's fine, it's your opinion. But I like to do it and I won't stop unless I get a call from The IFAB saying stop.
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Getting 1 set of coaches praising you is not a major accomplishment. I'm sure they'd also praise you for not sending the caution through that you gave. Or for not giving the red card for the DOGSO because it was already 8-0.

Same for league secretary's. They aren't necessarily referees- and even when they are, they aren't particularly bothered.
 
Runner Ref said:
Getting 1 set of coaches praising you is not a major accomplishment. I'm sure they'd also praise you for not sending the caution through that you gave. Or for not giving the red card for the DOGSO because it was already 8-0.

Same for league secretary's. They aren't necessarily referees- and even when they are, they aren't particularly bothered.
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I appreciate that, but having 2 sets of coaches praise me after a game for things like this wasn't exactly rare this season for me. Also, I'm not particularly bothered if a ref sec isn't fond of me. I'm just as qualified for the job as they are, and on one occasion when we had a temporary to fill in I was actually more qualified, having sat through the course. I personally believe this sort of stuff is good for rapport and player development, and is absolutely necessary. However, I know people like you don't agree, but you don't have to. No ref is the same. That's life!
 
Gabriel said:
Annoyed. But that's completely different. I would also point out that after 1 mini soccer game earlier this season, where I made a point of explaining how to take the throws, both sets of coaches thanked me and said most don't do that but should (their words exactly) and the league's ref secretary who happened to be on the pitch next to me also pointed it out in a positive, congratulatory way. If you don't think it's ok, that's fine, it's your opinion. But I like to do it and I won't stop unless I get a call from The IFAB saying stop.
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Advising players is taught at the course for new referees going into mini soccer.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Advising players is taught at the course for new referees going into mini soccer.
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I don't actually remember this specific bit of my course but I do remember my RDO saying something along the lines of it being helpful. For context, he ran the line in the National League South Play-Off semi-final, and refereed a Step 4 semi, both a few weeks ago, so I paid particular attention to his guidance, as it clearly got him far
 
Gabriel said:
I appreciate that, but having 2 sets of coaches praise me after a game for things like this wasn't exactly rare this season for me. Also, I'm not particularly bothered if a ref sec isn't fond of me. I'm just as qualified for the job as they are, and on one occasion when we had a temporary to fill in I was actually more qualified, having sat through the course. I personally believe this sort of stuff is good for rapport and player development, and is absolutely necessary. However, I know people like you don't agree, but you don't have to. No ref is the same. That's life!
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No, it clearly says give them another chance, not coach them.
 
Gabriel said:
I don't actually remember this specific bit of my course but I do remember my RDO saying something along the lines of it being helpful. For context, he ran the line in the National League South Play-Off semi-final, and refereed a Step 4 semi, both a few weeks ago, so I paid particular attention to his guidance, as it clearly got him far
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I ran the line on the NL N/S play-off final, means diddly squat. Or does it mean you should pay me extra attention on my guidance?

The guidance says give them another go, not coach them.
 
Runner Ref said:
No, it clearly says give them another chance, not coach them.
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Nothing that says don't help them. They are kids ranging from 6 to 10 years old! Do you really think anyone who wants to go home with a face in one piece is going to make a kid cry by penalising them for having a foot an inch off the floor?
 
Gabriel said:
Nothing that says don't help them. They are kids ranging from 6 to 10 years old! Do you really think anyone who wants to go home with a face in one piece is going to make a kid cry by penalising them for having a foot an inch off the floor?
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I doubt a child is going to cry over that. And even then, they could still get it wrong after your coaching. Then what?

If they're 6 years old, get the ball in play and get on with it.
 
Runner Ref said:
Then what?
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Then, you give it the other way.
I'm going to flip something someone asked me a few months ago onto you here. If you follow guidance like this strictly, and do exactly what is says, do you penalise keepers after 6.00001 seconds? Because it's a very similar principle in using common sense.
 
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