A&H

Double jump

callmemyref

callmemyref

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

Hope you and your loved are doing well.

I have applied for the double jump this season, any suggestions?
 
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Bad idea
Are you eligible to apply for promotion? You've only just started refereeing
It achieves nothing IMO and it's better to develop slowly
 
40 games sounds like a lot to achieve, even in a normal season without a pandemic. I started the season off doing a game on a Sunday Morning and in the afternoon but found I was ultimately too tired from my first game, both mentally and physically, to give 100% for the whole 90 minutes in my second game. If I was being assessed in the afternoon, I'd have been in trouble. Just something to bare in mind. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
I'm very much against anyone doing a double jump.

Even if you are young and aspire to get to the very top of the game (which isn't me), trying to go fast at the outset is a double edged sword.

The levels from 7-5 are the right time to learn your trade and make your mistakes and learn from them. Once you get to L4 then it's far more competitive and the margins between success (promotion), status quo (staying at that level) and failure (demotion) are much smaller, that's even taking into account the first year free.

I've lost count of the number of young referees that have gone fast to L4 and have been found out at that level, just because they don't have enough experience behind them to handle the pressure situations. They've been moved back down to L5 and for those that have come back up again, they've learnt a lot from it.

My advice would be learn your trade at the lower levels of the game and it will help you in the long run.

If, however you are adamant you want to do it and succeed, then of you are successful take 1 or 2 seasons at L5 to stabilise. You'll get some good "tasty" games and that will help you in the mid term far more than trying to rush up the levels.
 
Big Cat said:
Shouldn't be allowed. CFA's setting people up for a fail
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I disagree, as effectively there is little to no difference to refereeing at level 6 and level 5. Where I do agree though is those that go 7 to 4, or even 6 to 4 in the same season, as there you are going from grass roots football to the semi-pro game with paid players and paying spectators. I did the latter and I'm big enough to say I was a bit of a mess in the my first few games at level 4, I was OK longer term because I'm quite confident and thick skinned and therefore recovered. Not everyone will be able to do that though.

With 7 to 5 they are still going through two promotion seasons, they are just condensed into one. Where I think 7 to 5 is useful is for referees that have spent a while at L7 and for whatever reason couldn't go for promotion earlier. Would I recommend it for someone who has only recently qualified? No, I wouldn't, unless I had seen them refereeing and thought that they were ready for it. I certainly don't think it should be banned though as I have seen many referees go through that route and make it to L3 and beyond.

CFAs can also help by putting conditions around it, for example anyone going 7 to 5, or even all promotion candidates, must act as assistant referee on a supply league. When I came through there was a requirement for x number of lines to get to L4, but not at what level, consequently I found myself on the line for a step 4 game when I hadn't done any lines at steps 5, 6 or even 7. I was OK decisions wise, but I didn't know the basics like holding the offside flag until the ball is correctly placed, or returning from checking the nets together.
 
RustyRef said:
I disagree, as effectively there is little to no difference to refereeing at level 6 and level 5. Where I do agree though is those that go 7 to 4, or even 6 to 4 in the same season, as there you are going from grass roots football to the semi-pro game with paid players and paying spectators. I did the latter and I'm big enough to say I was a bit of a mess in the my first few games at level 4, I was OK longer term because I'm quite confident and thick skinned and therefore recovered. Not everyone will be able to do that though.

With 7 to 5 they are still going through two promotion seasons, they are just condensed into one. Where I think 7 to 5 is useful is for referees that have spent a while at L7 and for whatever reason couldn't go for promotion earlier. Would I recommend it for someone who has only recently qualified? No, I wouldn't, unless I had seen them refereeing and thought that they were ready for it. I certainly don't think it should be banned though as I have seen many referees go through that route and make it to L3 and beyond.

CFAs can also help by putting conditions around it, for example anyone going 7 to 5, or even all promotion candidates, must act as assistant referee on a supply league. When I came through there was a requirement for x number of lines to get to L4, but not at what level, consequently I found myself on the line for a step 4 game when I hadn't done any lines at steps 5, 6 or even 7. I was OK decisions wise, but I didn't know the basics like holding the offside flag until the ball is correctly placed, or returning from checking the nets together.
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40 games in one season is not the same as 40 games over two seasons. Probably a case of quantity over quality. No time to reflect, take in the surroundings, attend RA meetings etc. etc.
Perhaps if someone has completed two seasons already, or some other stringent conditions (that I can't think of). But the overriding thought on the subject is that the Double Jump achieves nothing and the risks outweigh the benefit. Just not worth it from anyone's perspective
 
I feel this should be allowed but only on the recommendation of CFA appointed coaches or observers who think the referee shows exceptional promise.

I know a 7-4 (quite old) that is now a 2a and a 7-5 (quite young) that stayed a 7 but is now a 3 so it can work, but these are exceptional refs.

I went 7-6-5-4 in consecutive seasons and in reality that was possibly too quick for me, wasn't comfortable in my first few seasons at 4 though now feel happy managing any game at this level.

I know youre very keen to progress quickly but I'd caution you against it. You're young and not that experienced, you really have nothing to lose by waiting an extra year or two and building up experience that will help you in your later years.
 
es1 said:
I feel this should be allowed but only on the recommendation of CFA appointed coaches or observers who think the referee shows exceptional promise.

I know a 7-4 (quite old) that is now a 2a and a 7-5 (quite young) that stayed a 7 but is now a 3 so it can work, but these are exceptional refs.

I went 7-6-5-4 in consecutive seasons and in reality that was possibly too quick for me, wasn't comfortable in my first few seasons at 4 though now feel happy managing any game at this level.

I know youre very keen to progress quickly but I'd caution you against it. You're young and not that experienced, you really have nothing to lose by waiting an extra year or two and building up experience that will help you in your later years.
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Best thing I ever did taking a season to consolidate at 5 before doing my 5-4.

Even then after a successful 5-4 I hadn't truly appreciated just how big the jump to L4 from L5 is.
 
es1 said:
I feel this should be allowed but only on the recommendation of CFA appointed coaches or observers who think the referee shows exceptional promise.

I know a 7-4 (quite old) that is now a 2a and a 7-5 (quite young) that stayed a 7 but is now a 3 so it can work, but these are exceptional refs.

I went 7-6-5-4 in consecutive seasons and in reality that was possibly too quick for me, wasn't comfortable in my first few seasons at 4 though now feel happy managing any game at this level.

I know youre very keen to progress quickly but I'd caution you against it. You're young and not that experienced, you really have nothing to lose by waiting an extra year or two and building up experience that will help you in your later years.
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Birmingham FAs double jumps are supposed to be selected like that.
In practice the selection is based on who you know not on ability or potential.
 
I'm with the general consensus here that double jump should be reserved for either 7-5 or hand picked exceptional referees (without prejudice or bias).
As with justy I had an extra year at 5 (mine was due to not being promoted first time round, met criteria but availability was poor and I ranked outside required numbers. Had a higher average mark than I got promoted with) and I admit it was probably a good job as the jump from 5 to 4 is a big one especially if operating at step 6 and 5.
As a L4 in North West i was only doing step 7 and that jump was decent enough. Now on South West I am doing step 6 and 5 which is another step up again but all the years experience leading up to it has put me in good stead.
Summary - take your time learn your craft and become the best referee you can by becoming proficient at each level before moving on.
Whatever you do best of luck.
 
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Here in The Home Counties, theoretically, it's possible to Referee a Step 6 game within 18 months or so from Qualifying... assuming rapid 20 OA games and double-jump (where permitted). Interesting
 
I'm not in the UK, so I can't comment on the jumps, per se, but I think there is much wisdom in the advice above about adjusting before moving on. Each level of play requires a significant adjustment. For refs it takes that adjustment to "slow the game down"--just as it does for players moving up levels. With experience, we read the level of game and understand what is likely to happen next and are aware of where we need to be looking for what happens next--certain things become reflexive/automatic so our mind is free to deal with other things. As a ref, it really isn't any fun to be in over your head (been there, done that), and it doesn't help your development.
 
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I'm neither for nor against it for those that have the ability (and inclination).

It was suggested to me by my RDO after first qualifying as a Level 7, largely I think due to the fact that I was around 10 years older than most of my course peers and was already "behind" in terms of how quickly I could get to Level 4 and beyond. I declined. I spent 2 years as a Level 7 before going to 6 and then 5 in consecutive seasons. I have little doubt that any attempt to have gone from Level 6-4 at that time would have ended miserably for me anyway. Even at the age of 44 (which I was at the time) and with all the people skills I'd amassed by then, I certainly wasn't at Level 4 standard by the time I gained level 5 (not in my opinion anyway).
I've since toyed with the idea of semi-pro football and promotion (even just for a season or two) mainly for the kudos amongst my fellow referees that goes with it but my body and my personal life say no. ;) :)
 
In my experience, when I take on too may games, I drift away from giving each individual game the preparation, attention and reflection that each merits. Cramming in middles also detracts from the valuable experience gained on the line. I could go on
Whilst I agree that (double-jump) conditions should be set as a minimum, on the whole it's easier to just forget the idea. It doesn't seem right that CFA's have different policies, but that's football!
I only know of one R who went 7-to-5 and he progressed straight to L3 (but then he's a good age and played at Step 3, therefore a great prospect)
So I get it.... but I'm certain it's a bad idea for most
 
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socal lurker said:
I'm not in the UK, so I can't comment on the jumps, per se, but I think there is much wisdom in the advice above about adjusting before moving on. Each level of play requires a significant adjustment. For refs it takes that adjustment to "slow the game down"--just as it does for players moving up levels. With experience, we read the level of game and understand what is likely to happen next and are aware of where we need to be looking for what happens next--certain things become reflexive/automatic so our mind is free to deal with other things. As a ref, it really isn't any fun to be in over your head (been there, done that), and it doesn't help your development.
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Not so much in England, as there is almost no difference between levels 6 and 5. You might get slightly better appointments as an assistant, and could potentially get middles on some step 6 leagues (although in reality they would test you out at step 7 or reserves first). It is only really when you get to level 4 that the standard of football improves, 6s and 5s will invariably be refereeing exactly the same types of games as each other.
 
RustyRef said:
Not so much in England, as there is almost no difference between levels 6 and 5
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Agree to an extent. 6 is neither here nor there. It slows the development process down however
RustyRef said:
6s and 5s will invariably be refereeing exactly the same types of games as each other
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Really? Standard of footy may be comparable (maybe that's what you mean), but 5's get appointed one league higher than 6's (exceptions granted)
 
Big Cat said:
Really? Standard of footy may be comparable (maybe that's what you mean), but 5's get appointed one league higher than 6's (exceptions granted)
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Where I am 5/6 doesn't really matter and refs of all levels get games any various levels within the local leagues at the appointing officers discretion. Obviously those going for promotion may see some more testing/challenging games but there's no official separation between 5s and 6s
 
es1 said:
Where I am 5/6 doesn't really matter and refs of all levels get games any various levels within the local leagues at the appointing officers discretion. Obviously those going for promotion may see some more testing/challenging games but there's no official separation between 5s and 6s
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Yep, same here. I've been a RefsSec on multiple occasions, appointments at grass roots are usually done based on club marks rather than level. That's the same as the leagues that I've refereed on, I've never really seen any differentiation between L6 and L5 officials, that has only come in at step 7 and above which is no longer grass roots.

I've seen lots of L7s who have never gone for promotion who are better referees than some L5s, so if I have a big game that needs well handling I'll look at who is the best performing rather than necessarily just who is the highest level.
 
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