A&H

Dissent

L

LeonBradley

New Member
Hi All,

Just wondered if some of you can share the techniques you use to deal with dissent throughout the match. I understand the Steps approach and it can work really well but for some reason my mind goes completely blank when calling a player in for a "chat". I've identified the dissent and know it needs to be dealt with (before things get out of hand) but I'm struggling in knowing what to say to players when they're stood in front of me; I don't want to sound like I'm telling them off or threatening with cards as this usually gets their back up even more.

I've only reffed 8/9 games so I know this will come with experience but any tips/techniques will really help me.

Thanks

Leon
 
The Referee Store
There's no hard and fast rule. Everybody has their own way of dealing with the little things that can escalate if not dealt with appropriately.

Dissent is dissent. If you view it as dissent - issue a caution straight away.

Whining or moaning, if constant throughout a game can eventually be viewed as dissent as well.

But dissent is visually or verbally displaying opposition to your decisions. Your tolerance level can decide what sort of moaning or whining at a referee constitutes dissent but the pitch and "loudness" of a players complaint is often what makes me reach for the card rather than the content.

Try something like "Okay mate, no more comments please - last warning". Then jog away. If he follows you arguing or even opens his mouth again - caution. Easy life. :)
 
Kes said:
There's no hard and fast rule. Everybody has their own way of dealing with the little things that can escalate if not dealt with appropriately.

Dissent is dissent. If you view it as dissent - issue a caution straight away.

Whining or moaning, if constant throughout a game can eventually be viewed as dissent as well.

But dissent is visually or verbally displaying opposition to your decisions. Your tolerance level can decide what sort of moaning or whining at a referee constitutes dissent but the pitch and "loudness" of a players complaint is often what makes me reach for the card rather than the content.

Try something like "Okay mate, no more comments please - last warning". Then jog away. If he follows you arguing or even opens his mouth again - caution. Easy life. :)
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Thanks Kes - I think that's part of the problem is that I'm finding it difficult to differentiate between persistent whinging/moaning and dissent. I'm constantly hearing comments from players such as "That's a sh*t decision ref", and "open your f*kin eyes ref", "good job he's not getting assessed lads". Would these sorts of comments warrant a caution? Or maybe a warning and then if it continues a caution? I don't want to be giving loads of cautions out for these sorts of things but at the same time if they're not dealt with then everybody seems to jump on the bandwagon and makes the 90 minutes even more difficult.
 
Rule number 1 of having a chat is to not back yourself into a corner by making any definite statements. Say "any more and it's a card", you risk the other team being wound up if he says something later and you can't act because you don't hear it. Say "don't give me a reason to get the cards out" and it's still entirely up to you as to when you decide you've had enough.

As to your specific issues, low level complaining is what the stepped approach is for. If it's any more than that, the stepped approach can go out the window and you can go straight to your pocket - that's by far what most of my dissent cards are for, rather than the low rumble. Everyone has to come up with their own "putdowns" that sounds right in their voice, and that can be applied to different situations. But the important thing isn't really what you say, it's that you make a point of stopping the game and making sure everyone sees you saying something.
 
IMHO you should caution straight away for anything with expletives in your direction.

The ”good job” line is all about context. More likely to be a warning - or a retort.

I also struggle with the ”script”. Your first warning for dissent is key. And your body language - cut the grass - is just as important as your words. Remember the first proper warning sets everything up.
 
LeonBradley said:
"That's a sh*t decision ref", and "open your f*kin eyes ref", "good job he's not getting assessed lads"
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The first one and the last one, I'd go straight for the yellow, no warning. The middle one at least a yellow, maybe a red for OFFINABUS depending on the context and atmosphere of the game etc.
 
You can only help those players that want to be helped. Some are walking cards and probably get 1 for dissent every other game at least.

One line i have incorporated recently which works quite well is "I know you disagree, but I am only giving what I have seen. When you start shouting at me, your opponents are expecting that I give you a yellow card, and if you carry on I'll have no choice."

Or similar. They tend to, so far, accept this.

Another one, used the other night to the captain was at the end of the chat told him "there's no more warnings". First sign of dissent after that. Yellow. Easy sell. No1 complained as it was expected.
 
Similar to above, I use stuff like "I dont expect you to agree with me but i do expect you to accept my decision, if you cant, then you are in the wrong place" (or words to that affect). Very rare to go down the "am right and everybody else is wrong" line, helps to show some emphthy and try treat folk the best you can the way you would like to be treated......some humility sometimes works too "look, I might well have called that last throw wrong, am sorry, I will try my best to get the next one right".
 
I always had my serial offenders, they never change, same sh1t different game.
Actually met one of my former nemesis’s in June in Spain and had an off duty chat etc, he’s still a c0ck but at least we shook hands and had a chuckle, we rarely hear it from their point of view on reflection a few years on...
 
LeonBradley said:
Hi All,

Just wondered if some of you can share the techniques you use to deal with dissent throughout the match. I understand the Steps approach and it can work really well but for some reason my mind goes completely blank when calling a player in for a "chat". I've identified the dissent and know it needs to be dealt with (before things get out of hand) but I'm struggling in knowing what to say to players when they're stood in front of me; I don't want to sound like I'm telling them off or threatening with cards as this usually gets their back up even more.

I've only reffed 8/9 games so I know this will come with experience but any tips/techniques will really help me.

Thanks

Leon
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Sounds like you're about 18 months behind me, so the stage you're at is a recent memory for me
Your post gets at the heart of refereeing imo
Firstly, you must get confident with the Laws. Knowledge of the Laws and their application go together; a process i'm not close to completing after 60 or so games. Any signs of weakness in this respect and the players with take you in as potatoes and spit you out as chips (all refs are subject to this)
So half, probably a lot more of dissent is mitigated without saying a word. The rest is down to communication. How you look, first impressions, keeping your distance; and that's before a ball is kicked
During the game, i think the priority is to avoid getting involved in squabbles. Do this with brevity, assertion and empathy. You can't script it but i like agreeing to disagree,,, 'you might be right from your angle, but i'm right from mine'. I like that because i'm not ignoring an opinion and it gives the player a conversational cul-de-sac. I prefer single words and hand signals to sentences
Don't accept the things said to you in your examples
 
Probably going to get shot down for this but I rarely bother with a chat for dissent. I normally use single lines such as ‘no more’, ‘just keep your head’ and ‘dont keep pushing me’. If they keep on, it’s a booking. I don’t feel the need to have a chat about something they are fully aware of
 
Big Cat said:
Sounds like you're about 18 months behind me, so the stage you're at is a recent memory for me
Your post gets at the heart of refereeing imo
Firstly, you must get confident with the Laws. Knowledge of the Laws and their application go together; a process i'm not close to completing after 60 or so games. Any signs of weakness in this respect and the players with take you in as potatoes and spit you out as chips (all refs are subject to this)
So half, probably a lot more of dissent is mitigated without saying a word. The rest is down to communication. How you look, first impressions, keeping your distance; and that's before a ball is kicked
During the game, i think the priority is to avoid getting involved in squabbles. Do this with brevity, assertion and empathy. You can't script it but i like agreeing to disagree,,, 'you might be right from your angle, but i'm right from mine'. I like that because i'm not ignoring an opinion and it gives the player a conversational cul-de-sac. I prefer single words and hand signals to sentences
Don't accept the things said to you in your examples
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This. BC is on a roll!

I know some refs and ARs like to have heated debate on the field but in my humble opinion it's always bad - even if it feels good for that official and that player, it's never good for others. And most cases I see with a ref or lino getting into an argument/heated discussion, the player is basically reeling them in!

I like the different angles / agree to disagree approach. And the "I understand you don't agree" - good line @JamesL
 
One of my favourite tactics is to bring them aside and talk about something entirely different.

Use a line like "look, I know you're upset, and I'm bringing you aside to make a bit of a show for the others here, so just nod, grimace, and head back to where you need to be."

This works really well on flashpoint tackles too, where one team is clearly expecting a caution and you know that it's not nearly that level... I've gone and asked what movies they've seen recently or if a new one is good etc, and pointing out that this is for the other team, because if I don't take 'em aside to obviously read them their last rites, then the other team may take it upon themselves to start some argy bargy.
 
LeonBradley said:
Thanks Kes - I think that's part of the problem is that I'm finding it difficult to differentiate between persistent whinging/moaning and dissent. I'm constantly hearing comments from players such as "That's a sh*t decision ref", and "open your f*kin eyes ref", "good job he's not getting assessed lads". Would these sorts of comments warrant a caution? Or maybe a warning and then if it continues a caution? I don't want to be giving loads of cautions out for these sorts of things but at the same time if they're not dealt with then everybody seems to jump on the bandwagon and makes the 90 minutes even more difficult.
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All of those comments are personal and warrant a yellow card without warning. You turn up to referee a game of football and should not have to put up with this. players all know how they are supposed to behave and should know the respect code so don't mess around with warnings, I doubt you will ever need to do this more than twice in a game as it will stop when players know you will not tolerate it.
 
AlexF said:
One of my favourite tactics is to bring them aside and talk about something entirely different.

Use a line like "look, I know you're upset, and I'm bringing you aside to make a bit of a show for the others here, so just nod, grimace, and head back to where you need to be."

This works really well on flashpoint tackles too, where one team is clearly expecting a caution and you know that it's not nearly that level... I've gone and asked what movies they've seen recently or if a new one is good etc, and pointing out that this is for the other team, because if I don't take 'em aside to obviously read them their last rites, then the other team may take it upon themselves to start some argy bargy.
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Not the worst tactic, however, to be used sparingly, as five mins later the other team do what appears a similar offence but get carded....
There was certainly one top level ref, (acting mostly in spl as 4th) who used your tactic a lot, to such effect his comments appear (favourably) in many managers storytales.
 
Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated. I used the "I know you aren't going to agree but I do expect you to accept" line and worked well. Also used "that's one too many sarcastic comments, anymore and it may be a caution". I think it's just going to be abit of trial and error....
 
LeonBradley said:
Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated. I used the "I know you aren't going to agree but I do expect you to accept" line and worked well. Also used "that's one too many sarcastic comments, anymore and it may be a caution". I think it's just going to be abit of trial and error....
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Good stuff Leon. You'll eventually adopt your own "go to" responses and warnings as each season goes by. It's not an exact science and, as alluded to already, everybody is different. Always remember though, that dissent is dissent - from Minute 1 to extra time if applicable. If it sounds and feels like dissent to you then that's what it is. Just like OFFINABUS. ;) :)
 
I'm always approachable and light hearted before games and remain so once we get under way. However, the first time I hear any dissent I make a big deal out of it and give a clear and relatively loud warning that I've not come here to put up with any dissent and that this is the first and only warning.

Its not a perfect approach, nobody's is, but the change of approach from me alerts the players and managers and if I do have to caution later in the game, it's an easy sell as everyone heard my warning.

This works for me but I wouldn't disagree with those who forgo any warning and go straight to the cards. Everyone knows that there's punishments for dissent towards a referee.

Obviously the nature of the first bit of dissent I hear has to be taken into account. On Sunday a gave a corner for a finger tip save from the keeper and the centre half said "that's an embarrassing decision ref". That got a very stern warning from myself and I used it as a positive ie, an oppurtunity for me to say no more from anyone. But if he'd have sworn directly at me it's straight to the cards. Obviously OFFINABUS is simple regardless of circumstances.
 
A bit like your closing down you should have said.

Should have carded him for that, still descent.

Your warning comes before the game.
 
spuddy1878 said:
A bit like your closing down you should have said.

Should have carded him for that, still descent.

Your warning comes before the game.
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Spud, I think you have to be careful with ultimatums before the game. If you say something like "I won't tolerate dissent" to the captains before the game, when the inevitable sly non-YC comment comes early in the game, the opposing captain, and then their team, will use it to undermine you.

Yes, give a YC if the first dissent deserves it, but most higher level refs I see and try to learn from do this "big reaction to the first dissent". Either the strong warning, clear cut the grass, long talking to, or I know one guy that goes full pantomime at the first dissent - shouting, makes himself look a bit crazy but gets everyone the message.

It's YMMV of course, and every situation is different;)
 
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