A&H

Dissent

Chrisp72

Always smiling
Hi

Had a situation today , calls player over to have a quiet word to tell him to calm down yet he refused to come over to me after telling him twice more i said I was now cautioning him for dissent and if he did not come to me I would show him a second for dissent , he finally came over to me and after showing him the yellow card he said “ have you finished now if you have f..k o.. out my face so now issued a red , would anybody have done this different ? Also what happens if after telling him that I was cautioning him for dissent he still wouldn’t come and I decided to caution again would I show the yellow twice then red or just Yellow then red ?
 
The Referee Store
Okay Chrisp72

Quiet word would be more when you are walking/running next to him. When you are calling player over to you it is elready 2nd step in stepped approach. If player refuses to come then you could go to 3rd stage which is calling captain over. This is a good way to use stepped approach and to "sell" your caution. You will prepare that player for caution and it will not be a "surprise"

However if player refuses to come after caution then yes you will show him 2nd caution and then red. You can`t keep that player on the field of play as it is dangerous for your match control
 
What happened after you issued the red, if ever I’ve heard a case of a player begging to be sent off then this it.

What a compete brain dead idiot.
 
After I issued the red he walked off and kicked all his teams water bottles over ! Captain then tells me he got sent off three days before for exactly the same thing
 
Also what happens if after telling him that I was cautioning him for dissent he still wouldn’t come and I decided to caution again would I show the yellow twice then red or just Yellow then red ?

Show the yellow twice, then the red in that case.

I think you were right to send him off. :)
 
After I issued the red he walked off and kicked all his teams water bottles over ! Captain then tells me he got sent off three days before for exactly the same thing

How bizzare, I would have done the same - yellow eventually when he came over - then a straight red for F off!

Not sure I’d issue a second yellow for not coming over to you, then again it would really wind me up if he refused so it would have been an interesting one had I of been in your shoes, but hey neither here or there as he asked politely for a red anyway.
 
Could try a four card trick? Two yellows for dissent = .red plus red for offinabus?
Technically not possible. Once shown the second yellow the player is now a sent off player and the red is for the second yellow. Anything said after the second yellow is a incident/misconduct and should be reported as such.

Hi

Had a situation today , calls player over to have a quiet word to tell him to calm down yet he refused to come over to me after telling him twice more i said I was now cautioning him for dissent and if he did not come to me I would show him a second for dissent , he finally came over to me and after showing him the yellow card he said “ have you finished now if you have f..k o.. out my face so now issued a red , would anybody have done this different ? Also what happens if after telling him that I was cautioning him for dissent he still wouldn’t come and I decided to caution again would I show the yellow twice then red or just Yellow then red ?
Technically your cards were reasonable and you did everything right. From a player management point of view, I am not so sure. If you wanted him to get himself sent off for some reason or another then there is no issue with what you did.

Most referees I know would want to keep players on the pitch if possible. That is when player management techniques come in.

Often when you want to talk to a player, he has done something wrong, is already in a heightened state of mind and not thinking straight. They are full of adrenaline in tense game situations. When calling players over, you have already started a public warning process. In his mind, you are asking him to walk to you so you can give him a bollocking. Getting a bollocking in front of his team mates is bad enough, having to walk to it? He is not thinking about consequences. He is thinking about not being humiliated. He eventually comes over, he gets a talking to and a yellow. Humiliation complete. He now doesn't care if he gets sent off. He has to get his own back. Luckily in most cases its only a verbal. He does and you do what you have to do.

While your send off was correct, you could have done things differently to possibly avoid sending him off (doesn't always work but you try). Using the captain as pointed out above is one way. If you want to have a quiet word run past him, don't attract anybody else's attention. They are more likely to listen if no one else is looking (pride is a strange thing). As you are going past him say something like "calm down mate.... what you did is not on"
Alternatively if you want to make it public, start walking towards him as you are asking him to come to you. That way if he refuses, it doesn't look like you are going to him because he refused. You were already walking that way anyway. Once you are there you can give him a bollocking. But in this situation (when he refused to come to you) I would go for a yellow, no words (unless you have to ask his name) and get out of there as soon as you can. Record the yellow and run past the captain to ask him to calm the player down or his second yellow is not too far away.
 
Alternatively if you want to make it public, start walking towards him as you are asking him to come to you. That way if he refuses, it doesn't look like you are going to him because he refused. You were already walking that way anyway.

Just to add to this, I find players much more receptive to coming to me if I direct them a neutral point we can both walk to. - Which can also be useful for taking them away from people keen to eavesdrop on the situation.
 
True. Standing there and calling a player over is like summoning a dog. Use a triangle. You're point A, player is point B. Gesture that you want to meet them off to the side, point C of the triangle. That's even less confronting then summoning him to you and you walking up to him.

This is always rubbish when a player refuses to participate in a discussion - because no matter what you do here, you're going to look bad. Is it a battle worth fighting if the player refuses to come?
You guys probably have no choice given you need to ask for name anyway.
 
Thanks all some great advice on how to deal with a player in this situation I will certainly take all this on board . Looking back yes could have handled it a bit better for sure especially the triangle one was a good way to do things .
I must add this lad was the captain he was also sent off for the same thing 3 days earlier I know that’s a different game and shouldn’t take that into consideration but I thought he may have learnt a bit from that, he has a lot to learn but has time on his side especially this being a U16 game !
 
Thanks all some great advice on how to deal with a player in this situation I will certainly take all this on board . Looking back yes could have handled it a bit better for sure especially the triangle one was a good way to do things .
I must add this lad was the captain he was also sent off for the same thing 3 days earlier I know that’s a different game and shouldn’t take that into consideration but I thought he may have learnt a bit from that, he has a lot to learn but has time on his side especially this being a U16 game !
If he was sent off for 3 days earlier, why was he playing?
I'd be all for sending that information to the league....
 
Dismissal wouldn't have been submitted and processed - it takes 7 days in England now - used to be 14.
 
And it is only for the type of football you were sent off in.

Probably not relevant in this case but if you’re sent off in a Sunday league game then your ban is only from Sunday league football.
 
Dismissal wouldn't have been submitted and processed - it takes 7 days in England now - used to be 14.
Wow...okay. Fair enough then.
Man, I remember when I was referee's assignor. Now, if you get sent off as a player, you have an equal suspension as a referee.
10pm on a Friday night after the U/18 games have finished, I'd get the phone call....'yeah, I got sent off'.
And invariably when that happens, they're refereeing the state league (so, required to have a full team) at 8am on Saturday!!
 
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