The Ref Stop

Delusional coaches killing the youth game

Homer Ref

Homer Ref

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Not been a ref long, but long enough to see the damage that is being done to our youth game by certain people who are not fit to be coaches. Their general bad attitude towards us referees flows down through onto their young impressionable teams and their frustrations and little high-pitched voices now shriek of injustice and question every decision that goes against them. It is not fun, it is not enjoyable.

It is not as though these coaches are actually under any real pressure either, they aren't. They shouldn't be. Yes, of course, it is nice to be successful but for me, these successes should be measured in bringing on the young players, training them to be better ball-players, improving their fitness and most importantly instilling in them the right attitude to the game - and that includes accepting decisions and clamping down on dissent. Nothing wrong with a winning mentality, that is what the game is about, but there is this losing because of a referee decisions mentality that is now creeping in. I don't see this happening in many games to be fair and not all coaches are the same. You know the good ones right away.

What is the answer? Do we just refuse to do the games and deny the players a game? Should Leagues and Youth football associations have assessors that actually attend matches and monitor a coach's behaviour and deal with it accordingly or should we just continue to bring the cards out and report them?

Nothing seems to be changing and this has been looked at non-stop. Football is suffering for it and referees are leaving the game because of it.
 
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The Ref Stop
Absolutely bang on. Where I am it is a mercifully small number and they stand out a mile. Worst I have experienced was at mid-level international youth tournaments.

Last week’s ref syndrome is really important here. We must act and discipline coaches appropriately. Even if it means abandonment or risking the wrath of some parents. This is really hard for young referees but we must support each other.

I’ve been thanked by OWN players and parents for binning off the worst pair of coaches I’ve come across.
 
I completely agree with you for the most part @Homer Ref although I'm in the same camp as @santa sangria in that in my experience over the last eight years or so (five strictly as a parent/coach/volunteer ref, three as parent and qualified referee) it is a small minority.

It's impossible to put an exact figure on it but where as in OA football it feels like it's every fourth or fifth game you come across a team who are a pain in the backside, it's much more like once or twice a season in most youth football, though I know there'll be geographical differences.

I coached kids rugby before football and it's always been about developing them individual as a player and person, and whilst winning is nice it's far from the be all and end all. Plenty of youth football coaches have the exact same outlook and ultimately whilst leagues and CFA's could do more, the onus is on us as referees to deal with it - something much easier said than done for young refs - but more importantly on parents not putting up with it. One of my 13yo's coaches is a lovely, lovely fella but occasionally can get whiny and whingy with refs and if I'm reffing I just tell him to shut up or he's in the book (in the right way, of course) and if I'm acting as CAR or just watching I'll tell him to calm down. But if my lad played for a coach who was a tool I'd move him, simple as that.

And I think that's the problem - parents who won't address it directly or won't move there child then become at least as part of the problem as the coaches, and unless and until the league or CFA step in following reports from referees and other clubs, they just get worse and worse.

In terms of the answer, I would say it's for us to deal with behaviour on the day and religiously let the league/CFA know when you have concerns.
 
Totally agree. I also coach a kids team and some of the things you hear from the other coaches is embarrassing. They get their Level 1 coaching licence then think they can do whatever they like. There are processes in place (ie marks for the opposition...coaches, players, supporters) but the leagues never seem to follow these up. What I would like to see is separate marks for each of these, and if really low, sanctions which could include the withdrawal of their coaching licence
 
Leagues should publish their referee turnover for the season I think. The stark reality of the behaviour of coaches parents and players might just show the impact they have. Leagues should ask referees to mark down a 1 out of 10 rating for respect after every match.
 
I realise we pick our own battles, but we all have a responsibility to deal with dissent and offensive language, to report safeguarding concerns, to ensure a Respect program is adhered to, and discipline / report / whistleblow those who don't. We have plenty of tools during and after.

Whether competitions and clubs take that feedback on board, however...

Homer Ref said:
Leagues should publish their referee turnover for the season I think. The stark reality of the behaviour of coaches parents and players might just show the impact they have. Leagues should ask referees to mark down a 1 out of 10 rating for respect after every match.
Click to expand...
Several leagues in England have this (or very similar) via Full-Time.
 
Homer Ref said:
Not been a ref long, but long enough to see the damage that is being done to our youth game by certain people who are not fit to be coaches. Their general bad attitude towards us referees flows down through onto their young impressionable teams and their frustrations and little high-pitched voices now shriek of injustice and question every decision that goes against them. It is not fun, it is not enjoyable.

It is not as though these coaches are actually under any real pressure either, they aren't. They shouldn't be. Yes, of course, it is nice to be successful but for me, these successes should be measured in bringing on the young players, training them to be better ball-players, improving their fitness and most importantly instilling in them the right attitude to the game - and that includes accepting decisions and clamping down on dissent. Nothing wrong with a winning mentality, that is what the game is about, but there is this losing because of a referee decisions mentality that is now creeping in. I don't see this happening in many games to be fair and not all coaches are the same. You know the good ones right away.

What is the answer? Do we just refuse to do the games and deny the players a game? Should Leagues and Youth football associations have assessors that actually attend matches and monitor a coach's behaviour and deal with it accordingly or should we just continue to bring the cards out and report them?

Nothing seems to be changing and this has been looked at non-stop. Football is suffering for it and referees are leaving the game because of it.
Click to expand...
I mentored a young referee on Sunday morning, ref did well, all coaches & players very well behaved.

However winning team coach says to me at the end of this competitive match “its so stressful managing the team!”

They just feel that winning is the be all & end all & it’s U11 🤷
 
Homer Ref said:
Leagues should publish their referee turnover for the season I think. The stark reality of the behaviour of coaches parents and players might just show the impact they have. Leagues should ask referees to mark down a 1 out of 10 rating for respect after every match.
Click to expand...
I referee in four different leagues (three youth, one OA) and not one requires any returns from refs. I know they're run by volunteers and sympathise with that as a volunteer for several clubs, but I think it would help paint a picture that WGS disciplinary reports might not.
 
FirsFox40 said:
I realise we pick our own battles, but we all have a responsibility to deal with dissent and offensive language, to report safeguarding concerns, to ensure a Respect program is adhered to, and discipline / report / whistleblow those who don't. We have plenty of tools during and after.

Whether competitions and clubs take that feedback on board, however...


Several leagues in England have this (or very similar) via Full-Time.
Click to expand...
This is not to monitor the team officials so they can be booted (although if needs must) but to make sure that a fresh-faced referee isn't put on the spot. Youth games are meant to be the training ground and exposed to the hostility at the wrong time is just going to make them, like myself think twice about coming back for more.
 
FirsFox40 said:
I realise we pick our own battles, but we all have a responsibility to deal with dissent and offensive language, to report safeguarding concerns, to ensure a Respect program is adhered to, and discipline / report / whistleblow those who don't. We have plenty of tools during and after.
Click to expand...
Completely agree, it used to infuriate me when I'd open referee match reports and they'd have comments like this team were a disgrace, the manager shouted abuse at me all game, worst team I've ever refereed, etc. Then I go to the discipline section and see that not a single sanction was issued in the game, whether to players or coaches. Always made me wonder what on earth they expected me to do about it, I could hardly email the club secretary to say I'd had a compliant about coach behaviour as they would quite rightly retort with the referee didn't deal with it on the day.

Every referee has the tools to deal with these individuals in their pockets. Remember that the laws say that occupants of the technical area must behave in a responsible banner, if they aren't deal with them, if we as referees don't no one else will.
 
Interesting debate and discussions.

I am the referees liaison officer for the YEL in the East Midlands. For quite a few years the league have asked for match reports that are submitted electronically via our scoreline system from our referees. Works really well, as we get the information we need very quickly. Young referees know we have their backs. Parents know we support our referees. We also run regular training evenings.

We also, have a respect traffic light system for teams. Green = all is good. Amber = warning. Red = final warning. Black = SGM to go before the membership for the board to recommend removal of the team. So far no AGM as clubs tend to remove problems teams, as do not want to the first at an SGM. We don’t lose our referees because of this. There are of course exceptions.
 
RustyRef said:
Every referee has the tools to deal with these individuals in their pockets. Remember that the laws say that occupants of the technical area must behave in a responsible banner, if they aren't deal with them, if we as referees don't no one else will.
Click to expand...
I am not disagreeing with this, but for me damage is already done the minute coaches start their nonsense, players have already heard that they have been 'hard done by' and they in turn will question the refereeing decisions. I suppose the only alternative is to get everyone together at the start and warn them that you will be using the cards if need be.

Here is my whole point. I think you should not need to do this in youth games. There is absolutely no benefit in getting on to a sometimes young inexperienced match official when most times there really is nothing at stake bar a win. There is nothing to be gained in shouting out and questioning every decision. There is a hell of a lot to lose when it comes to team discipline, team morale and the general development of the young players though.

We need to guide our young players wisely and to me there are some coaches when it comes to their discipline and attitude are falling short of doing that.
 
Homer Ref said:
I am not disagreeing with this, but for me damage is already done the minute coaches start their nonsense, players have already heard that they have been 'hard done by' and they in turn will question the refereeing decisions. I suppose the only alternative is to get everyone together at the start and warn them that you will be using the cards if need be.

Here is my whole point. I think you should not need to do this in youth games. There is absolutely no benefit in getting on to a sometimes young inexperienced match official when most times there really is nothing at stake bar a win. There is nothing to be gained in shouting out and questioning every decision. There is a hell of a lot to lose when it comes to team discipline, team morale and the general development of the young players though.

We need to guide our young players wisely and to me there are some coaches when it comes to their discipline and attitude are falling short of doing that.
Click to expand...
The answer lies in your opening paragraph.
Coach or manager "starts their nonsense", at a break in play go across and publicly remind them about their behaviour.
If a player shows dissent, deal with it. If a player uses offensive, insulting and/or abusive words or actions, deal with it.
If the standard of behaviour starts to slip, that is the time to deal with it.
Too many of your colleagues just ignore unacceptable behaviour, like the referee I saw on Sunday morning who was called a "f'ing c##t" to his face over a penalty decision. Response: "Don't need that language, do we?". No disciplinary action.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
The answer lies in your opening paragraph.
Coach or manager "starts their nonsense", at a break in play go across and publicly remind them about their behaviour.
If a player shows dissent, deal with it. If a player uses offensive, insulting and/or abusive words or actions, deal with it.
If the standard of behaviour starts to slip, that is the time to deal with it.
Too many of your colleagues just ignore unacceptable behaviour, like the referee I saw on Sunday morning who was called a "f'ing c##t" to his face over a penalty decision. Response: "Don't need that language, do we?". No disciplinary action.
Click to expand...
Wow! Was that actually said at a youth game???
 
There's one manager in my youth league who is aged 18-23 roughly and he cannot behave himself. Last season i sent him off - twice. Gave me a false name - twice.

This season the league are not supplying his team with a ref most weeks so when his team are at home he gets a youth referee to do it. They've won every home game by 5-0 or greater but away they have won once.

What's the story?
 
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