The Ref Stop

Cup Final Appointments

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TurboRef2000

New Member
Just wondered what processes County FA/ Youth leagues go to for choosing cup final referees? I would hope they are given on merit... However feel unlucky not to get a County or League cup final in both the girls and/or boys league.
Over 35 matches this season, with no negative feedback from the leagues or FA etc etc. However no cup final.

To put this into context, one 'retired' referee has done 2 U9 games this season and has been rewarded with a semi final & final on 11-a-side competitions. Another 9 v 9 referee has been appointed to an 11-a-side cup final. The appointment secretary has given themselves a final in the middle after doing 5 games all season. Plus some other referees who 'are in the click' have 2 cup final appointments on the same youth league.

Like I said, it has to be earned on merit, and you hope you have done enough. But at times it feels like it is who you know.

Any thoughts???
 
The Ref Stop
It will be down to merit and also length of service will often be factored in. I know a chap who has given much of his life to refereeing, but it took him 30+years to get a county cup final.

If you get one, appreciate it. But you aren’t necessarily owed it
 
I've never been given a cc final in my county (I've received a couple of late call ups mind) despite reffing at a good level (and reasonably well) for a number of years
 
It varies wildly.

One of our local youth leagues doesn’t allocate referees. I’ve done at least 100 games for them over the last six years - 3 as volunteer, 3 as qualified - and never had a final. I know I get good scores and feedback, but turns out even though they don’t and never have allocated except for finals, you still have to register with them. Frustrating as I didn’t know and it wasn’t clear, but you live and learn.

The other local youth league, which does allocate, focuses on giving final opportunities to younger refs, which I have zero issue with. I did get a 4th official appointment in year one though, and they’ve given me three U18s Semi-Finals this year (multiple cups, obviously!), so I live in hope!

Local Dog & Duck league have given me two semis and a final in year one, all as AR (which is ideal as first AR appointments).

Keep working hard at perfecting your craft and out in good performances and it’ll come.
 
Runner Ref said:
It will be down to merit and also length of service will often be factored in. I know a chap who has given much of his life to refereeing, but it took him 30+years to get a county cup final.
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l don't understand this. Not literally. I understand it but it doesn't makes sense. Did you mean to say "will not be" and "also not" given your reference to the chap.

TurboRef2000 said:
Just wondered what processes County FA/ Youth leagues go to for choosing cup final referees? I would hope they are given on merit... However feel unlucky not to get a County or League cup final in both the girls and/or boys league.
Over 35 matches this season, with no negative feedback from the leagues or FA etc etc. However no cup final.

To put this into context, one 'retired' referee has done 2 U9 games this season and has been rewarded with a semi final & final on 11-a-side competitions. Another 9 v 9 referee has been appointed to an 11-a-side cup final. The appointment secretary has given themselves a final in the middle after doing 5 games all season. Plus some other referees who 'are in the click' have 2 cup final appointments on the same youth league.

Like I said, it has to be earned on merit, and you hope you have done enough. But at times it feels like it is who you know.

Any thoughts???
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Many walks of life are not fair. Refereeing is no different. It is actually much better compared to many other organisations. Most of us have felt the way as you feel at some (many) points in our life.

While you are not 'lucky' here you may be lucky in another walk of life at the expense of another unlucky person.

Keep at it, your time will come.
 
It would be naive to think that all appointing officers will always dish out all finals on merit and there will never be any that give 'jobs for the boys' (or girls), but the vast majority will do the best job they can of giving them to those who they feel deserve them whether that be based on observer marks, club marks, service, admin or whatever.

I've actually ended up on the middle of my county's senior cup final this year, and I feel like many people are looking at it and wondering why I have the appointment over a few colleagues, and one in particular who has just been promoted to level 2, having received his level 3 at the same time as me and having been 4th official to me on the junior cup final last season.

Now he knows, and I know, that he was meant to have the game but he's on holiday (this was known before the appointments evening) and I got selected as (apparently) the highest ranked official on the merit table that hasn't previously refereed this cup final. I do feel like many people who don't know this would be wondering why I've got it and there will be other referees who've spent longer at level 3 than me that are miffed that I've done the 2 biggest county cup final middles back to back. But the appointing officer selected me (as second choice, which these other people won't know) for genuine reason.
 
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Neither of my two local youth leagues appoint referees and leave it to the clubs to sort out each week. Therefore, I wondered how they appointed referees for their finals, and decided to email last season (having refereed on these leagues for about 10 seasons). I was duly appointed as Ref / AR for a day of two finals (U15s). This season, I've had an email from the league to ask me if I'd like to be involved again, as they'd noted that I'd asked the previous season.

Not sure if other leagues are like this - but certainly being proactive has been beneficial in my case.
 
one said:
l don't understand this. Not literally. I understand it but it doesn't makes sense. Did you mean to say "will not be" and "also not" given your reference to the chap.
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Well in his day, he was a very good referee. Has gone on to become a tutor, presented to FIFA officials etc. Yet it wasn’t until he was winding down his refereeing career that he actually got one. Had it been on merit completely, he’d have got one years ago.

There will always be a mixture of merit, length of service and also your face fitting for such appointments.
 
We should be happy for our colleagues when then receive their appointments and same goes for promotions.

They aren't an entitlement, but a privilege to be selected (in most cases).

After all when it's your turn would you want your colleagues starting this thread on refchat, about you?

Offer them your congratulations, and think about what you can do next season to get the gig.
 
Loads of factors and importantly: There are a maximum of 4 roles per final and probably up to 100 referees at least who could be eligible in some way or another.

I was 4th on the women's county cup final last season and I'm in the middle this season, I've put that down in part to my promotion but also being engaged and proactive with the RDO at my county. Not sucking up but just engaging with CPD's and offering help where I can when asked.

Could be completely wrong and they pulled names out of a hat!

I also really wanted a role on the Women's league cup semis/final this season, having never had an adult ladies league cup final before, but didn't get one and I do not begrudge those who did. They all earned it in some way or another and just means I go and get a game from somewhere else that day :)
 
In my county it is a general rule of thumb that you don't get a semi or a final 2 years in a row, with a few exceptions. I know plenty of referees who had a final one year and then had probably the best season they've ever had the next, but still not receiving a second. Our appointments officer is really good and will share the games out while honouring the merit or service refs have given him.

I remember being annoyed I didn't have one last year, as I thought I had a brilliant season. But once I had seen everyone who did receive one, I couldn't see any strong reason why I would have deserved it as much or more than them.
 
I think the selections vary based one a couple of factors
  1. How desperate are the organizers of the tournament for referees
  2. What level of competition is it (prestigious, small competition, regional, local, etc)
  3. How much is pay
4. What quality the organizers want of referees

Some competitions want to look at your experiance of refereeing and will also look at your level. They might request a form to apply for the position.
 
It will vary vastly between leagues, and will also be different between county finals and league finals. When I was an appointments officer I would look at ...
  • Availability. I'm for more likely to give a final appointment to someone who has refereed 20 games to someone who has refereed 5.
  • Club marks. We all know they aren't perfect, but they do average out over time and ultimately are all I have to go on.
  • Administration / Attitude. It is fair to say that if I've had to regularly chase a referee for their match report, or they keep turning down games on open dates, there is zero chance of them getting a final.
  • Previous appointments. I don't believe that referees, no matter how good they are, should get finals every year, but equally I don't agree with the concept that once you've had a final once you can't have it again.
For county cup appointments the RDOs will have access to much more data, and often will prioritise promotion candidates for county cup games throughout the season. Crucially they will have awareness of how good a referee is as an AR, whereas your average grass roots appointments officer won't have a clue. I've had some car crashes on finals where one of the ARs has clearly never held a flag before, on one occasion he was so bad the referee kept glaring at me where I was sat in the stand imploring me to do something about it.
 
RefereeX said:
It would be naive to think that all appointing officers will always dish out all finals on merit and there will never be any that give 'jobs for the boys' (or girls), but the vast majority will do the best job they can of giving them to those who they feel deserve them whether that be based on observer marks, club marks, service, admin or whatever.

I've actually ended up on the middle of my county's senior cup final this year, and I feel like many people are looking at it and wondering why I have the appointment over a few colleagues, and one in particular who has just been promoted to level 2, having received his level 3 at the same time as me and having been 4th official to me on the junior cup final last season.

Now he knows, and I know, that he was meant to have the game but he's on holiday (this was known before the appointments evening) and I got selected as (apparently) the highest ranked official on the merit table that hasn't previously refereed this cup final. I do feel like many people who don't know this would be wondering why I've got it and there will be other referees who've spent longer at level 3 than me that are miffed that I've done the 2 biggest county cup final middles back to back. But the appointing officer selected me (as second choice, which these other people won't know) for genuine reason.
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I lined with him before he was famous 😏
 
I find it strange when there are so few spots for refs in the finals that some people have 2 finals (1 as ref and 1 as a/ref).

Also, when over 50% of the spots go to "academy refs" seems like a high amount.

That said last time i was offered a final (8 years ago) i rejected it as driving over 120 miles for a plastic trophy, no petrol or fee, seemed pointless to go with the 20 or so i already have in the garage.

Things are never as clear as they seem. Boxes must be ticked.
 
As we're discussing cup finals a referee colleague has a line on a final and the ref e-mailed him to say to get there at 8.45am for a Sunday 10.30am kick-off.

Ridiculous!
 
Kent Ref said:
As we're discussing cup finals a referee colleague has a line on a final and the ref e-mailed him to say to get there at 8.45am for a Sunday 10.30am kick-off.

Ridiculous!
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Not that ridiculous, we ask our cup final officials to get there 90 minutes before. We look after them and their guests in the boardroom, and there have been a few occasions where typical London traffic issues meant that had they aimed to be there an hour before kick off they'd not have been there when the game kicked off.
 
Kent Ref said:
I find it strange when there are so few spots for refs in the finals that some people have 2 finals (1 as ref and 1 as a/ref).
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Depends on the circumstances, our league covers a huge geographical distance so I never wanted to drag someone potentially 50+ miles just to do a 4th official role. We had three finals on the same day, so I would always make sure anyone who was 4th official also got a line on the previous or later game.

But we have also always paid a full match fee for cup finals, and if you do two finals on the same day you get two match fees.
 
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