Ref4Me

Confronted after the match by the keeper/coach

higdawgy

New Member
Level 2 Referee
So this happened in my game today, Premier Division where I referee, 2nd vs 3rd in a tight contest.

This is the basic rundown of the confrontation that I will be submitted as an incident report, please let me know any feedback that anyone has. It was disappointing as the match was really good until this behaviour at the end spoiled it and left a bad taste.

During the match the winning goal was scored by Black (home) which Orange (away) believed was offside.

AR2 was looking towards the sun, I confirmed with him that he could clearly see the incident and he confirmed he could and that the goal scorer was onside and I awarded the goal.
They questioned his decision as he did not call a goal-kick that he stated was obscured by the sun, but confirmed a second time that he could see the goal onside incident.
Orange players continued their objections for an extended period after the goal was scored but no offences were committed by Orange players in their objection.

After the completion of the match and after all players had shaken hands, the two AR and I were leaving the Field of Play when Orange goalkeeper/coach (same player) approached me to talk about the winning goal. He believed that because AR2 was looking into the sun he couldn’t have seen the goal and wanted to know that they weren’t “having a go at him”, just were concerned that he couldn’t see the play.

I said words to the effect of “that’s fine, but you can’t keep going on about the play, he confirmed it was onside and I awarded the goal”.

He replied with words to the effect of “of course he is going to say that, he isn’t going to go against the home supporters, cause he is scared of them” (there were no supporters near him, irrelevant anyway to question the AR integrity).

I said that AR2 confirmed it was a goal and was happy to continue the rest of the game on that side of the field.

By this time we had left the field of play, I was next to the referee's area and Orange keeper/coach was halfway between the referee area near halfway and the orange technical area.

I told Orange keeper that I was finished with the conversation and that he had his say on what he thought was going on but I wasn’t going to listen to him questioning my AR.

At this stage, he raised his voice with words to the effect of “how can he see what’s going on, this isn’t good enough”. Two other Orange players joined in with similar comments. Due to the multiple people joining into the conversation I raised my voice to a level that they could all hear and said words to the effect of “you’ve said enough, this is done”.

Keeper continued to call out with words to the effect of “oh good, raise your voice, we can do that too”.

I turned around and walked to sit with the AR in the referee's area, the three players continued complaining but I had stopped listening to their conversation.

If we had not departed the field by the time that this conversation turned confrontational I would have given a red card for: R-TO5 – entering the field of play to: (a) confront a Match Official (including at half-time and full-time);(b) interfere with play or an opposing Player.
I believed that the Orange Keeper was acting in his capacity as the coach of the team as all other players had departed the field and he returned to speak to me as we left the field.

After we had finished completing the post-match paperwork and getting changed the two ARs and I walked along the field towards the carpark, Orange keeper was standing behind the Black technical area in civilian clothes. He yelled out to me “Make sure you write down everything I said, cause I’m putting in one about you”. I ignored his comments and did not acknowledge that he had spoken to me to which he replied “you aren’t an alpha bro”.

I viewed these departing comments as abusive and intended to intimidate.
 
The Referee Store

ChasObserverRefDeveloper

Regular Contributor
So this happened in my game today, Premier Division where I referee, 2nd vs 3rd in a tight contest.

This is the basic rundown of the confrontation that I will be submitted as an incident report, please let me know any feedback that anyone has. It was disappointing as the match was really good until this behaviour at the end spoiled it and left a bad taste.

During the match the winning goal was scored by Black (home) which Orange (away) believed was offside.

AR2 was looking towards the sun, I confirmed with him that he could clearly see the incident and he confirmed he could and that the goal scorer was onside and I awarded the goal.
They questioned his decision as he did not call a goal-kick that he stated was obscured by the sun, but confirmed a second time that he could see the goal onside incident.
Orange players continued their objections for an extended period after the goal was scored but no offences were committed by Orange players in their objection.

After the completion of the match and after all players had shaken hands, the two AR and I were leaving the Field of Play when Orange goalkeeper/coach (same player) approached me to talk about the winning goal. He believed that because AR2 was looking into the sun he couldn’t have seen the goal and wanted to know that they weren’t “having a go at him”, just were concerned that he couldn’t see the play.

I said words to the effect of “that’s fine, but you can’t keep going on about the play, he confirmed it was onside and I awarded the goal”.

He replied with words to the effect of “of course he is going to say that, he isn’t going to go against the home supporters, cause he is scared of them” (there were no supporters near him, irrelevant anyway to question the AR integrity).

I said that AR2 confirmed it was a goal and was happy to continue the rest of the game on that side of the field.

By this time we had left the field of play, I was next to the referee's area and Orange keeper/coach was halfway between the referee area near halfway and the orange technical area.

I told Orange keeper that I was finished with the conversation and that he had his say on what he thought was going on but I wasn’t going to listen to him questioning my AR.

At this stage, he raised his voice with words to the effect of “how can he see what’s going on, this isn’t good enough”. Two other Orange players joined in with similar comments. Due to the multiple people joining into the conversation I raised my voice to a level that they could all hear and said words to the effect of “you’ve said enough, this is done”.

Keeper continued to call out with words to the effect of “oh good, raise your voice, we can do that too”.

I turned around and walked to sit with the AR in the referee's area, the three players continued complaining but I had stopped listening to their conversation.

If we had not departed the field by the time that this conversation turned confrontational I would have given a red card for: R-TO5 – entering the field of play to: (a) confront a Match Official (including at half-time and full-time);(b) interfere with play or an opposing Player.
I believed that the Orange Keeper was acting in his capacity as the coach of the team as all other players had departed the field and he returned to speak to me as we left the field.

After we had finished completing the post-match paperwork and getting changed the two ARs and I walked along the field towards the carpark, Orange keeper was standing behind the Black technical area in civilian clothes. He yelled out to me “Make sure you write down everything I said, cause I’m putting in one about you”. I ignored his comments and did not acknowledge that he had spoken to me to which he replied “you aren’t an alpha bro”.

I viewed these departing comments as abusive and intended to intimidate.
Clarify in your report whether the coach/ goalkeeper had left the f. o. p. and then returned, or whether he commented while leaving the f. o. p.
Either way you are reporting misconduct after the game.
After preparing your report, if possible show it to someone who wasn't at the game and ask them to describe the event - this helps to ensure the discipline team get a clear picture.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
My thought here is that, explaining decisions to players has to be handled with care."They questioned his decision as he did not call a goal-kick that he stated was obscured by the sun..."

Talking to players about the sun being a problem, if that's what has gone on, is just asking for trouble. It's a gift for low level dissent. The AR should be smart enough to keep quiet about any doubts they have. This is like saying to players, "I also thought, maybe it wasn't a pen, but I gave it anyway"... asking for trouble. Put on a show! We do that most of the time;)

But yeah, PitA coach, he's gone too far and you are quite right to report his behaviour.
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
lot of that is you had to be there

suppose the coaching point is, if its obv the ar is struggling, its for the referee to be proactive and get into stunning positions where you can be credible

the Ar has sunk himself by mention of the sun, what can anyone do?
reach up and turn the sun off?

or adapt, think outside the box, and hey, if its the worst sun problem of all time?

switch AR to the other diagonal.
wear a hat.

anything bar, sorry could not see it. Prevention, better than the cure
 
Last edited:

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
lot of that is you had to be there

suppose the coaching point is, if its obv the ar is struggling, its for the referee to be proactive and get into stunning positions where you can be credible

the Ar has sunk himself by mention of the sun, what can anyone do?
reach up and turn the sun off?

or adapt, think outside the box, and hey, if its the worst sun problem of all time?

switch AR to the other diagonal.
wear a hat.

anything bar, sorry could not see it. Prevention, better than the cure
Never understood the reluctance to wear caps, what's more important - looking 'good' or actually seeing 'good'? :cool:
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Is it actually not allowed or is it just one of those things that aren't done? Where does it say you can't?
I asked about it in 30+ degrees in Spain and was told to do one by a very experienced AR (championship level I think) ;)
And I think you were there JL!
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
It has certainly been said at L3 conferences, no idea if it is written down anywhere though.
Which is why I've never seen them at those levels I guess.

Soooo, you've rather proved my point that's its better to look the part rather than being able to do your job to the best of your ability?

Bonkers!

Full trackie was permitted in minus 20 temps for guys behind goals in euro games
that waa for comfort
I absolutely would allow a hat if it meant substance over style

am sure i have seen a premiership lino with hat, of course i do not knos if there was fall out from it
 

ChasObserverRefDeveloper

Regular Contributor
Full trackie was permitted in minus 20 temps for guys behind goals in euro games
that waa for comfort
I absolutely would allow a hat if it meant substance over style

am sure i have seen a premiership lino with hat, of course i do not knos if there was fall out from it
It was around 10 years ago, from memory Wolves v Newcastle, and resulted in an edict from the powers that be ("No hats") after a lot of ridicule from public and media.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
It was around 10 years ago, from memory Wolves v Newcastle, and resulted in an edict from the powers that be ("No hats") after a lot of ridicule from public and media.

Yes, it was a PL game where the AR who was was wearing a cap made a clanger on an offside, and an immediate directive was sent out banning caps. Pretty sure it was at Fulham but could be wrong.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Yes, it was a PL game where the AR who was was wearing a cap made a clanger on an offside, and an immediate directive was sent out banning caps. Pretty sure it was at Fulham but could be wrong.
I'm afraid each post on here only makes me more convinced what a silly 'convention' it is, may as well have blamed the flag for the offside as much as the hat - seen hundreds of wrong offside calls with no hats involved! :p
 

higdawgy

New Member
Level 2 Referee
Thanks for all the comments everyone.
I agree that the AR shouldn't have mentioned that they couldn't see a decision because of the sun, they are a junior AR and still learning a lot of the tricks regarding speaking to players.
After the goal was scored I confirmed with them whether they wanted to change sides or needed to do anything and they said that they were happy to continue as they were.

And so far I have heard encouraging noise regarding the report I submitted. Apparently, the keeper/coach has sent some kind of message about me to the FA as well, I don't know if he sent in a report or just a message whinging about things.
 

Max2

Well-Known Member
Level 3 Referee
Apparently, the keeper/coach has sent some kind of message about me to the FA as well, I don't know if he sent in a report or just a message whinging about things.
90% of the time this is total, total ********.
 
Top