Ref4Me

College Game with an unfortunate ending

JBeil

Member
Level 7 Referee
Had my first OUAFC match today between two Oxford colleges, very polite affair - I think they must have been glad just to have a ref for once.

First half, some robust challenges, but nothing that really merited a card, and the temperature of the game was very low so I was quite happy, was getting some good sprints in too. Second half, two big KMDs - 70th minute or so, home win a corner, ball goes in, I'm tracking the runners towards the back of the box, headed back, towards the near post. I think it's headed before it crosses the line so I don't give the goal, the other team disagree. They shout at me for a few seconds but since the game is still live they get back onto it. 85th minute, ball goes into the box, defender has his hand just outside of his head, and almost catches the ball. Clear penalty, which then gets scored. In law, I don't think there's anything wrong, unless there's a YC there - I'm not so sure. There was a YC for C1AA just before time, but otherwise nothing I think I could have done differently. My positioning has obviously let me down on this one, but I've just been following the advice I've been given. Felt a bit rotten at the end as the home team had definitely been robbed, but that's the game sometimes. 0-1, go again on the weekend.
 
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Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Had my first OUAFC match today between two Oxford colleges, very polite affair - I think they must have been glad just to have a ref for once.

First half, some robust challenges, but nothing that really merited a card, and the temperature of the game was very low so I was quite happy, was getting some good sprints in too. Second half, two big KMDs - 70th minute or so, home win a corner, ball goes in, I'm tracking the runners towards the back of the box, headed back, towards the near post. I think it's headed before it crosses the line so I don't give the goal, the other team disagree. They shout at me for a few seconds but since the game is still live they get back onto it. 85th minute, ball goes into the box, defender has his hand just outside of his head, and almost catches the ball. Clear penalty, which then gets scored. In law, I don't think there's anything wrong, unless there's a YC there - I'm not so sure. There was a YC for C1AA just before time, but otherwise nothing I think I could have done differently. My positioning has obviously let me down on this one, but I've just been following the advice I've been given. Felt a bit rotten at the end as the home team had definitely been robbed, but that's the game sometimes. 0-1, go again on the weekend.
Some Observers (7-to-6 / 6-to-5 on CK's) might like to see you scuttle round to a position adjacent to the edge of the goal area to get a view of the goal line. But this is only a % thing to do if the CK is going deep towards the far post. The idea being that you don't have NAR's so there's some wisdom in trying to cover all bases. I wouldn't do this if the ball is going front post because then you can't see the drop-zone
Take this positioning stuff with a pinch of salt overall. The % thing to do changes once you've got NAR's so you wouldn't see Ref's moving into this unusual position at CKs at higher levels
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
no way can see everything. Cant be at edge of box and on the goal line at the same time

rest assured these dont happen often
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
I agree... some of the observer stuff at lower levels is overthinking things. There's always a downside when taking up 'extreme positions'

If ref missing 5 goal line goal calls in the game, something is up position or reading the game wise.
One close call ( which at grass roots observer might even be at ground level and have no idea either), then we need live with it.

Setting myself up to be informed otherwise but these close calls are rare.
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Were you on the corner of the box?

Without NAR's I'm always advised to stand on the far post penalty area, specifically to get the angle on the goal in/out. It does make near post incidents a nightmare, but goal in/out is too important.
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Were you on the corner of the box?

Without NAR's I'm always advised to stand on the far post penalty area, specifically to get the angle on the goal in/out. It does make near post incidents a nightmare, but goal in/out is too important.
Interesting. I don’t have games without NARS, so no direct experience, but it seems that is a recipe to caught badly behind a break away, which seems more likely than a goal line determination, as well as not the best place to see shenanigans in the PA during the CK.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Its about playing the percentages. Having to make a close goal/no goal call after a corner kick is far less likely than having to make a KMI decision at the other end after a counter. That's why standing near the goal line is no longer recommended. It used to be a thing though.
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
Were you on the corner of the box?

Without NAR's I'm always advised to stand on the far post penalty area, specifically to get the angle on the goal in/out. It does make near post incidents a nightmare, but goal in/out is too important.

I find it very rare the ball goes out from the kicking of the corner and totally as you point out, you cant see front post if you are standing at the back.

What you ideally want to be seeing is the drop zone. Where is this ball aimed, who are the targets. Is there risk of foul on gk, is big defensive 5 the target,is his run getting blocked?

You also as alluded to above need a glance to see what attackers are going to this ball if it gets smashed clear, and think ahead, how am i getting there, or getting an angle on the next passage of play.

back post you are 16//18 yards needing made up for starters, plus navigating thro a ruck of players,

nothing is never a never, if those corners are curling,swirling towards the far top corner, or you need be a presence there, fine, but move around, let the players know you are flexible

extreme for the purposes of an example, but you constant go bk, front post striker is fed up of being held by defender, is smart enough to know you are back post, sneaky elbow to face, thats your game over.

drop zone
flexible
and consider always next passage of play.

yes its passed thro generations, ball in out pllay is priority, and its hard to dispute, as of course when its out, all bets are off.
its not often it happens

you also can smell it going out, keeper shouts, attackers stop, kicker tutting at himself, gauge it by sense if not always by sight.
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
That's why standing near the goal line is no longer recommended. It used to be a thing though.

It still is a thing here. In between the two boxes ideally so you can move side-to-side for in/out, or back out of the area.

but move around, let the players know you are flexible

Absolutely, our guidance is to take up that back post position and then be on the move when the corner is taken, so flexibility is needed. But my understanding is the main KMI for corners is to identify the goal/no goal area.

Obviously, in @JBeil 's scenario this position may have saved him a huge headache and the sentiment of the team feeling robbed, but wouldn't have helped in other situations

back post you are 16//18 yards needing made up for starters,

You might laugh at this, but in my assessments where I have occasionally deviated from that position, the advice has been that we're fit enough to be able to keep up with play in the event of a counter attack and so I should take up that position more! Personally, I'm of the same mind, I prefer to be ready to get back up the field and dread the possible long ball clearances to chase.


It is what it is I guess, I have to follow the observer advice until told otherwise as it has been pretty unanimous on this point in recent seasons.
 

Anubis

RefChat Addict
It still is a thing here. In between the two boxes ideally so you can move side-to-side for in/out, or back out of the area.



Absolutely, our guidance is to take up that back post position and then be on the move when the corner is taken, so flexibility is needed. But my understanding is the main KMI for corners is to identify the goal/no goal area.

Obviously, in @JBeil 's scenario this position may have saved him a huge headache and the sentiment of the team feeling robbed, but wouldn't have helped in other situations



You might laugh at this, but in my assessments where I have occasionally deviated from that position, the advice has been that we're fit enough to be able to keep up with play in the event of a counter attack and so I should take up that position more! Personally, I'm of the same mind, I prefer to be ready to get back up the field and dread the possible long ball clearances to chase.


It is what it is I guess, I have to follow the observer advice until told otherwise as it has been pretty unanimous on this point in recent seasons.

thata a good well constructed view point

all I would add is a huge factor, anyone can be fit enough. Beinv fit requires no skill, merely a willingness to train

how and when to utilise your fitness is key,
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
It's a difficult one when you are on your own. The biggest decision, ball over line, is also probably the least likely to happen. I don't do many games on my own, but when I do I'll tend to stand beyond the far post about 6 yards out. That way I can still see all of the players and also have some element of credibility if there is a goal line decision.

I once observed a referee who missed two clear goals from corners and was stood in a traditional position outside the penalty area for both. When I spoke to him after he, somewhat misguidedly, said that you never have to rule on goal decisions from corners as it is always obvious. Err, you've had to do it twice in one game and got them both wrong 🤷‍♂️
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Some Observers (7-to-6 / 6-to-5 on CK's) might like to see you scuttle round to a position adjacent to the edge of the goal area to get a view of the goal line. But this is only a % thing to do if the CK is going deep towards the far post. The idea being that you don't have NAR's so there's some wisdom in trying to cover all bases. I wouldn't do this if the ball is going front post because then you can't see the drop-zone
Take this positioning stuff with a pinch of salt overall. The % thing to do changes once you've got NAR's so you wouldn't see Ref's moving into this unusual position at CKs at higher levels
You’ve so been hacked. Sound advice.
 
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