A&H

Ceremonial FK

Nalbi

Nalbi

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
Just one that's been nagging me for a while now, what do you say to defenders in a Ceremonial FK? I am well aware of the usual procedure, warning them about the distance encroachment and the penalty it carries, warning them about intentionally handling the ball and the yellow caution it will carry. I have seen some referees on TV instructing players on where to place or not place their hands?
Any specific logic/instructions behind this?
 
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Don't overcomplicate it! Especially if the FK is controversial, their blood will be pumping and they won't focus on a long lecture or details.

First ceremonial FK for each team I'll say something like "Behind my arm please, and remember to respect the distance until the ball is kicked". First time the wall ends up in the PA I'll remind them "OK guys, you're in the area so no hands or it'll be a penalty". One warning of each instance per team only, regardless of if the players in the wall change or not.

They're grown-up's with experience of playing and watching football. It's not really my responsibility to remind them of the basic laws and standard consequences every time IMO.
 
To the defenders "move back to the six yard box please, I'll call you forward". Once in place, "don't move forward from here gents".
To the attackers "on the whistle"
As I position myself, it's a loud "it's on my whistle" and I hold it up for good measure.

That's it. That's my ceremonial chat for a ceremonial free kick. Unless they ask me something etc.
 
DB said:
To the defenders "move back to the six yard box please, I'll call you forward". Once in place, don't move forward from here gents".
To the attackers "on the whistle"
As I position myself, it's a loud "it's on my whistle" and I hold it up for good measure.

That's it. That's my ceremonial chat for a ceremonial free kick. Unless they ask me something etc.
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Yes that's how i do it too, i was just interested in the clips where you have some refs showing how they want or don't want the defenders to place their arms and started wondering! oh that brain of mine trying to overthink!! not a good thing sometimes :D:D
 
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It's not up to me where they have their arms, they can be waving them about like madmen if they want, so long as they obviously don't contravene the lotg. If I see a bit of hand-work, I shout "no push/pull". I can't tell them to keep their hands down! I just keep it simple, they don't want a conversation with me at that time, I don't want one with them. Quick, simple easy instructions of no more than 5-10 words is more than enough. They know the drill.
 
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Telling them to keep their hands down is sensible refereeing. Then if one of them raises their hands and the bill hits them they can hardly complain at you giving a penalty given you had just warned them not to do it.
 
You'll be helping them to the toilet next Rusty ;)
 
RustyRef said:
Telling them to keep their hands down is sensible refereeing. Then if one of them raises their hands and the bill hits them they can hardly complain at you giving a penalty given you had just warned them not to do it.
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That was my thinking too, seeing how some refs in these clips showing what they will consider a deliberate handball and not a natural movement when jumping for e.g. I see why this would be appropriate or helpful when the wall are lined up in the penalty area with the chances of a penalty being awarded are higher!
 
RustyRef said:
Telling them to keep their hands down is sensible refereeing. Then if one of them raises their hands and the bill hits them they can hardly complain at you giving a penalty given you had just warned them not to do it.
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As one of the candidates said on Sunday on the new referees course I was running, "So you have to think one step ahead of players all the time???" I confirmed he'd grasped the concept of no surprises.
 
DB said:
You'll be helping them to the toilet next Rusty ;)
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All about protecting yourself and ultimately making your job as a referee easier.

I'd say around 50% of times I tell players to keep their hands down in the wall one player will ask "can I protect my face", to which my answer is no you can't (that's at grass roots, when I was at a senior level no one would ever ask that as they know they can't). The answer I would like to say is if you are worried about the ball hitting you in the face you probably want someone else in the wall, but obviously that goes unspoken.

The free kick then comes in, that player or another puts his hands up and effectively deliberately handles the ball and you give a penalty. With the warning that you gave the only person the defenders will be blaming is the offender, without the warning the entire defensive team will be blaming you as the referee. Much of successful refereeing is psychological, and getting and keeping the upper hand over players, and this is a classic example. Not that different to dealing with children - if you've told your kid not to do something and he goes and does it you have much more of the upper hand than if you had never told him not to do it .. :)
 
DB said:
Quick, simple easy instructions of no more than 5-10 words is more than enough. They know the drill.
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Get rid of this "Don't move forward from here gents".and replace it say with "Keep your hands down gents"
 
bester said:
Get rid of this "Don't move forward from here gents".and replace it say with "Keep your hands down gents"
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Why? Why do we have to tell the players to keep their hands down? Is it an offence to raise them? No.
Is it an offence to encroach the ten yards? Yes.

If players raise their arms and the ball strikes them on the arm/hand... it's handball. They know that, they don't need me to remind them.

I'll stick to my original sentence thanks ;)
DB said:
Why? Why do we have to tell the players to keep their hands down? Is it an offence to raise them? No.
Is it an offence to encroach the ten yards? Yes.

If players raise their arms and the ball strikes them on the arm/hand... it's handball. They know that, they don't need me to remind them.

I'll stick to my original sentence thanks ;)
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Rusty, "can I protect my face?"... "no you can't"... of course he can. But if the ball strikes them, its handball. If that ball is hurtling towards my face at a rate of knots from just ten yards, I'm not going to keep my hands down and take a smack in the nose... my nose is big enough as it is without it becoming swollen. I'll be getting out of the way sharpish (or I'd be a man and take the ball to the face (giggidty).

I'm afraid I treat the players like adults, I don't want to insult their intelligence by reminding them that a ball hitting their arm/hand is handball.

Whilst I understand your reasoning, it's not something I say to the players when I'm in the middle, purely because it is not an offence to raise arms/hands. :)


Just some reasoning here... I have at times asked players to keep their hands down. Until one player questioned me "Why? Is it a free kick if raise them?" "No, it's a free kick if the ball hits them". "But what if the ball doesn't hit them? Why can't I put them up?". *blows whistle*.
The guy, although he was being a smart arse... he had a point,
 
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bester said:
Get rid of this "Don't move forward from here gents".and replace it say with "Keep your hands down gents"
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I'm not sure i agree with you not telling them about the distance/moving beyond that imaginary line. it makes your life easy i would say, when you say out loud that's 10 gents, no further than that. They know what to expect'
 
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DB said:
Why? Why do we have to tell the players to keep their hands down? Is it an offence to raise them? No.
Is it an offence to encroach the ten yards? Yes.

If players raise their arms and the ball strikes them on the arm/hand... it's handball. They know that, they don't need me to remind them.

I'll stick to my original sentence thanks ;)


Rusty, "can I protect my face?"... "no you can't"... of course he can. But if the ball strikes them, its handball. If that ball is hurtling towards my face at a rate of knots from just ten yards, I'm not going to keep my hands down and take a smack in the nose... my nose is big enough as it is without it becoming swollen. I'll be getting out of the way sharpish (or I'd be a man and take the ball to the face (giggidty).

I'm afraid I treat the players like adults, I don't want to insult their intelligence by reminding them that a ball hitting their arm/hand is handball.

Whilst I understand your reasoning, it's not something I say to the players when I'm in the middle, purely because it is not an offence to raise arms/hands. :)


Just some reasoning here... I have at times asked players to keep their hands down. Until one player questioned me "Why? Is it a free kick if raise them?" "No, it's a free kick if the ball hits them". "But what if the ball doesn't hit them? Why can't I put them up?". *blows whistle*.
The guy, although he was being a smart arse... he had a point,
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Your choice, but for me prevention is much better than the cure.
 
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@DB Every tutor and/or coach would give the advice to remind a wall to not raise there arms when in the penalty area and back this up by raising your arms yourself which tells all around that you have told them this. This is not insulting anyone's intelligence, its good refereeing.
 
Cheshire Ref said:
@DB Every tutor and/or coach would give the advice to remind a wall to not raise there arms when in the penalty area and back this up by raising your arms yourself which tells all around that you have told them this. This is not insulting anyone's intelligence, its good refereeing.
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It's stating the obvious. I'm not against anyone saying this. It's just something that I don't personally; purely because it's not an offence for a player to raise his/her arms. I've been in the game long enough to know that if a ball hits my arm/hand, it's handball (if deliberate, of course). I don't need reminding of that fact every time I'm in a wall ready to defend a free kick.

It is good advice; just not advice that I give when I'm in the middle :)
 
If the wall is just inside the penalty area when I've paced out the distance I ask them to look at the floor to see that they are in the area, and remind them to keep their hands down
 
We don't teach the laws on the course any more. We teach practical application of the laws and the basic skills of refereeing. We introduce the concept of no surprises. We introduce the concept of managing the expectations of all present, some of whom may be players.

We talk about persistent infringement. We talk about prevention rather than cure. We teach telling the players to keep their hands down in a demonstrative manner. I do it so the little old lady walking her dog, the girl going past on a bicycle, the coach in the technical area and little Jimmy's "uncle" on the touchline can all go, "Well the referee did warn them".
 
As the player is standing at the corner flag and he puts that ball down, I will check its in/on that arc and say " on my whistle player" get myself in position, edge of box nearest to where corner being taken and i'm saying to the players " keep your hands down i'm watching all of you" and i blow my whistle.... always have done always will..man management and they all know i'm watching :)
 
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