A&H

Caution before kick off

one

one

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Here is a question that highlights (yet again) how poorly and incomplete the laws of the game are written and something simple has been left open to debate.

Can a player be cautioned before kick off?

It will be nice to have a LOTG answer rather than an interpretation.

(bonus marks :) if yes, how long before?)
 
The Referee Store
Makes unauthorised marks on the field of play? LOTG says the player must be cautioned.
Dissent by word or action before KO?
A player with incorrect kit refusing to leave the FOP before KO?
Isn't the referee responsible from the moment he enters the FOP to the moment he leaves? At higher levels, this is probably extended to the vicinity of the FOP e.g. stadium.
 
Categorically, yes, a player can be cautioned (or sent off) before kick off. Exactly as David says, from the moment you step on the FOP to the moment you leave at the end of the game.

Only thing I'd like clarification of is whether that includes well before the match when you're on the FOP just to warm up .. or whether the 'clock starts' from when you step on the FOP around five minutes before kick off? So, no bonus marks for me :(
 
Russell Jones said:
Categorically, yes, a player can be cautioned (or sent off) before kick off. Exactly as David says, from the moment you step on the FOP to the moment you leave at the end of the game.

Only thing I'd like clarification of is whether that includes well before the match when you're on the FOP just to warm up .. or whether the 'clock starts' from when you step on the FOP around five minutes before kick off? So, no bonus marks for me :(
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In my mind, it is not when but where. If I'm within 25m of the pitch on Town Fields in my home town, it's game on. If there's a defined boundary for the vicinity of the FOP then I'll use that or if there's 'proper' stadium or ground, that'll be my area of authority. Once I arrive within that zone, as referee I'm ready for the match I'm in charge of. And I finish when I leave that area. It's difficult to compare Wembley with Hackney Marshes or a Premier League match to a Sunday League game and the LOTG leave it open to interpretation to accommodate these differences. At least that's my take on it.
 
David Sutton said:
Makes unauthorised marks on the field of play? LOTG says the player must be cautioned.
Dissent by word or action before KO?
A player with incorrect kit refusing to leave the FOP before KO?
Isn't the referee responsible from the moment he enters the FOP to the moment he leaves? At higher levels, this is probably extended to the vicinity of the FOP e.g. stadium.
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Have cautioned for the first two before kick off
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Have cautioned for the first two before kick off
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Dissent before kick off - that's depressing, isn't it - did that set the tone for the rest of the game, or did the pre-KO card indicate the tolerance levels to the rest of the players?
 
David Sutton said:
Makes unauthorised marks on the field of play? LOTG says the player must be cautioned.
Dissent by word or action before KO?
A player with incorrect kit refusing to leave the FOP before KO?
Isn't the referee responsible from the moment he enters the FOP to the moment he leaves? At higher levels, this is probably extended to the vicinity of the FOP e.g. stadium.
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As I said its all about the (poor) wording of the laws and interpretations. Entering/exiting the FOP without permission is also a caution yet it doesn't apply during warm up on the FOP but unsporting behavior does.

Law 5 says the referee can show yellow and red cards at half time or after full time but no mention of before the match. Why?. However law 3 talks about if a player is send off before the kick off.

PS: the where and when according to an interpretation of law 5 is, where/when it is under the 'jurisdiction' of the referee. E.g. could be an hour away from game time at warm up on the FOP, or could be near the change rooms which are 200 meters away from the FOP. You interpret 'jurisdiction'.
 
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xPositor said:
Dissent before kick off - that's depressing, isn't it - did that set the tone for the rest of the game, or did the pre-KO card indicate the tolerance levels to the rest of the players?
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It set the tone. The player in question didn't last 90 minutes. His club secretary nearly joined him for the early shower. His poor captain couldn't control him and apologised for his actions
 
So @one , appreciate that your purpose in raising the issue was to point out the current incompleteness in the Law. But what do you think the correct answer should be? Maybe we on here can all agree and set the trend for the upcoming season! :)
 
I sent a player off in the tunnel. As they lined up he approached an opposition player and punched him. There had been a dispute over a woman. He didn't expect a red but he got one accompanied with 'shower's not far'. Nobody questioned the decision.
 
@Russell Jones I think we can all agree that referees can show yellow cards before kick off even though for some reason law 5 has omitted it. How long before and how far away from FOP is not as clear.
 
Denis McCarthy said:
I sent a player off in the tunnel. As they lined up he approached an opposition player and punched him. There had been a dispute over a woman. He didn't expect a red but he got one accompanied with 'shower's not far'. Nobody questioned the decision.
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I really want that to happen next season so I can whack out that line 'shower's not far'
 
As far as i am concerned from the moment i arrive at the ground, to the moment i drive away.
Point in question...On my way to my car after a match a woman came over to me and said that two players were squaring up to each other can i do something.So i walked over to them and said "Is this really worth me sending in a misconduct report?" They both looked at me shook hands and walked off..... job done....The woman said" would you really have done that?", and i said "absolutely no question about it"
 
mikedn said:
As far as i am concerned from the moment i arrive at the ground, to the moment i drive away.
Point in question...On my way to my car after a match a woman came over to me and said that two players were squaring up to each other can i do something.So i walked over to them and said "Is this really worth me sending in a misconduct report?" They both looked at me shook hands and walked off..... job done....The woman said" would you really have done that?", and i said "absolutely no question about it"
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@mikedn Would have you shown them red cards if they were violent?

I had a similar situation with a fight in the car park between a group of spectators and some players I had refereed 15 minutes earlier. The players were now changed and on their way home when it happened. I tried to break it up with no luck so i stood back and observed. I felt that this was out of my jurisdiction as a referee so there were no cards shown but I did send an incident (misconduct) report in.
 
one said:
@Russell Jones I think we can all agree that referees can show yellow cards before kick off even though for some reason law 5 has omitted it. How long before and how far away from FOP is not as clear.
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I disagree. You can issue a caution, not show a yellow card.
The Law5 didn't ommit anything, it's just what it is and you have to understand it
 
Yacinho said:
I disagree. You can issue a caution, not show a yellow card.
The Law5 didn't ommit anything, it's just what it is and you have to understand it
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Showing a yellow card is irrelevant, it's used purely as a communication tool to tell everyone w caution has been given... I probs my wouldn't actually show the card, but a referee is entitled to
 
You can't show a card outside the FOP... I'm worried about people thinking about showing a card in the parking lot
 
one said:
@mikedn Would have you shown them red cards if they were violent?

I had a similar situation with a fight in the car park between a group of spectators and some players I had refereed 15 minutes earlier. The players were now changed and on their way home when it happened. I tried to break it up with no luck so i stood back and observed. I felt that this was out of my jurisdiction as a referee so there were no cards shown but I did send an incident (misconduct) report in.
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No, i would not have shown a red card,i've always been led to believe red and yellow cards can only be shown on the field of play, i would have just told them i was going to send in reports....Mind you if it got violent i too would have stood back and observed.....
 
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