Bayern Munich vs Borussia M'glabbach
- Thread starter Tingting
- Start date
Going to need a clip, I very much doubt many on here were watching it
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
The stills don’t do it. Keep in mind the definition of deliberate in the Laws:
Deliberate
An action which the player intended/meant to make; it is not a ‘reflex’ or unintended reaction
If the referee deems it a reflexive protective action, it isn’t deliberate.
Deliberate
An action which the player intended/meant to make; it is not a ‘reflex’ or unintended reaction
If the referee deems it a reflexive protective action, it isn’t deliberate.
Agree on deliberate and agree with point on the still.
Worth pointing out whilst ruling out deliberate, making the body unnaturally bigger is of course still on the table.
A video of this incident would be helpful for an informed opinion to be given
one
RefChat Addict
Natural obviously is for movements within legal footballing moves. And that is so subjective. Any move leading to knwingly handling the ball is usually not a footballing move.
One could argue if he had enough time to bring his hands up to his head, then he had enough time to get his head out of the way. We don't really know his intent. No time to think. The question then becomes, what is the right expected reflex? Again subjective. These guys at this level live and breath football. For me the natural reflex should be to get of of the way. You see a lot of players' reflex is to turn. While in grassroot no way I'd give this a handball, I'd have no issues with it being given at Professional level.
One could argue if he had enough time to bring his hands up to his head, then he had enough time to get his head out of the way. We don't really know his intent. No time to think. The question then becomes, what is the right expected reflex? Again subjective. These guys at this level live and breath football. For me the natural reflex should be to get of of the way. You see a lot of players' reflex is to turn. While in grassroot no way I'd give this a handball, I'd have no issues with it being given at Professional level.
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
The ball did not come to him from a cross. For what it's worth, it came at him from a clearance by a team mate at very close range (the one you can see in the first image, closest to Reitz and more or less on the ground).
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
Having now watched a video of the game, I agree with the referee at the time (and the VAR, who didn't call for a review) that there's no handball offence here. Reflex protective action because of a ball hit at him hard, from extremely close range.
How is it making the body bigger? It's hitting him in the head without his instinctive reaction. I don't see how this can be classed as deliberate or making himself unnaturally bigger.
I think he panicked when he realised he was in danger of injury, when the ball was going to be blasted at him from very close range.
Not a penalty, the ball is heading out of the PA, he has no reason to make himself bigger.
Garincha
New Member
THE ANSWER
In the glossary, under the definition of "deliberate".
The real question is was his hand / arm a consequence or, or justifiable by, the player's body movement for that specific situation. I'm not entirely convinced that putting your hands in front of your face to avoid the ball hitting it is justifiable action, perhaps because I was always coached that you just took the ball in the face rather than risk giving a penalty away. That said, I don't have any strong views on it and can see both sides of the argument
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
At grassroots levels and especially at youth levels (where player safety is of paramount importance), I’d almost always judge an instinctive reflex movement to protect oneself as a justifiable body position. At pro levels, you could indeed make a case either way .. but in this scenario, where it is of zero playing benefit to the player to handball it, I’d see it as very harsh to call this an offence
