RefSix

Bayer Leverkusen Red Card

Status
Not open for further replies.

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Player goes in high, cleats forward. From the replay angle most like the R's it looks like his studs makes contact with the calf of the opponent. That would be an appropriate red. But other angles seem pretty clear that there was no contact from the cleats to the opponent. Given the advantage of other angles, I think yellow would be the better call.

I'm most intrigued by the lack of urgency between the whistle and the card. That makes me think that he was initially thinking yellow (or even no card?) and getting feedback in his ear that made him change to red. I'd love to hear an explanation of the R's thought process throughout.

Is Europa League using VAR?
 

ScotRef

RefChat Addict
Player goes in high, cleats forward. From the replay angle most like the R's it looks like his studs makes contact with the calf of the opponent. That would be an appropriate red. But other angles seem pretty clear that there was no contact from the cleats to the opponent. Given the advantage of other angles, I think yellow would be the better call.

I'm most intrigued by the lack of urgency between the whistle and the card. That makes me think that he was initially thinking yellow (or even no card?) and getting feedback in his ear that made him change to red. I'd love to hear an explanation of the R's thought process throughout.

Is Europa League using VAR?
Europa league doesn’t use VAR. I definitely think he has had a word in his ear to change from yellow to red. I noticed originally he reached for his short pocket (presuming the yellow was in there) to give a caution, but then takes a few seconds and issued a red.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
I think in the end this is a very good decision. I think you both (and initially me) missed the studs to the top of the knee (immidiately after the frame below). Then white player's left foot pushes the black players foot forward making it hard to see contact. Another sign of contact is the slight jarring of the knee at the time of contact.

Screenshot_20201030-144113~2.jpg
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
I don't think he catches him with the studs to the knee. Think he catches the left leg which knocks into the right causing the 'jarring of the knee', I think it's a trip and a yellow.

Can see why, in real time either the 4th or AR suggested red though.
 

Jtpetherick1

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
I strongly disagree with anything other than yellow here. What's really bizarre as others have said is the process - the delay/lack of urgency suggest yellow before an official (4O or AR) with a better view says its red. If anything I'd expect those with a better view to recommend a yellow. For me that is never, ever a red and I suspect/hope that had there been VAR in operation they'd have recommended a review.
Look at the reaction of the SLP players - no major appeals, I don't think anyone wants a red card and I don't think the game needs it at all.
 

Jtpetherick1

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
I think in the end this is a very good decision. I think you both (and initially me) missed the studs to the top of the knee (immidiately after the frame below). Then white player's left foot pushes the black players foot forward making it hard to see contact. Another sign of contact is the slight jarring of the knee at the time of contact.

View attachment 4655

Are we really still doing still images to prove the merits of a decision? I think the Arsenal disallowed goal vs Leicester shows you why that's a bad idea.
 

Alex Rush-Fear

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
I think in the end this is a very good decision. I think you both (and initially me) missed the studs to the top of the knee (immidiately after the frame below). Then white player's left foot pushes the black players foot forward making it hard to see contact. Another sign of contact is the slight jarring of the knee at the time of contact.

View attachment 4655
It's quite clear watching the video that there is no contact with the knee.
 

Degnann

SFA Category 1+6
Level 7 Referee
Do you know the heart break I felt watching the clip and it was Collum? Absolutely devastated I tell you.

can definitely see why assistant or 4th has called it a red.
 

Jtpetherick1

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
Do you know the heart break I felt watching the clip and it was Collum? Absolutely devastated I tell you.

can definitely see why assistant or 4th has called it a red.
Really? I'm fortunate to work in a team frequently with the same ARs (and 4th if we have one) and if one of them told me it was a red and I saw this afterwards I'd be livid.
 

BrumRef

Regular Contributor
Level 8 Referee
I’d agree with yellow I don’t feel there was excessive force or that he endangered the opponents safety and as @Jtpetherick1 the players weren’t looking for it and the 4O or AR has influenced him and not many will like to see that given either because in the 21st minute that “wrong” decision has changed the game entirely
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Are we really still doing still images to prove the merits of a decision? I think the Arsenal disallowed goal vs Leicester shows you why that's a bad idea.
No we are doing still images to establish point of contact as per VAR protocol which allows slow mo for the same. For the life of me I can't get that on my phone as it falls between two frames.
 

Degnann

SFA Category 1+6
Level 7 Referee
Really? I'm fortunate to work in a team frequently with the same ARs (and 4th if we have one) and if one of them told me it was a red and I saw this afterwards I'd be livid.
I didn’t say I agreed or that it was a good call. Far from it
 

Redster

Member
I think in the end this is a very good decision. I think you both (and initially me) missed the studs to the top of the knee (immidiately after the frame below). Then white player's left foot pushes the black players foot forward making it hard to see contact. Another sign of contact is the slight jarring of the knee at the time of contact.

I'm with you, One.
While the contact is not, in the end, overly forceful, it is more good luck than good management. He catches his opponent extremely high, just under the knee, with a straight leg. He does so after losing his footing and deciding to go through with the challenge anyway.

I can see the merits of yellow, but red does not dismay me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: one

Jtpetherick1

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
No we are doing still images to establish point of contact as per VAR protocol which allows slow mo for the same. For the life of me I can't get that on my phone as it falls between two frames.

No we're not because there is no contact with the knee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: es1

SurreyWolves

New Member
Level 7 Referee
I think in this day and age it had the potential to endanger the safety of an opponent...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top