RefSix

Authority as AR

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#1
A match this weekend left me with a couple of questions around how to go about managing players and benches without actually being the one with the cards and whistles. While the referee did a very good job with a difficult away team, I noticed a couple "minor" fouls that he seemed to deliberately let go - and I understand it's part of my job to adjust to that, even if I would have been stricter in the middle.

Where I struggled was he also seemed to give more leeway on dissent that I would. So around 75 minutes when a player turned round to argue a decision with me, and the referee was distracted by an incident on the benches, I didn't really know how to take control of that situation - where if I was in the middle, I'm fairly sure my whistle would have helped and I would certainly have considered/threatened a card. But knowing the ref wouldn't want to card for what he was saying (which he confirmed in the dressing room after), I felt like I was stuck repeating a reason for my decision and hoping the player would go away. And I knew that waving the ref over and insisting on a card would have been totally out of tone with how he'd managed the match so far, so I felt a bit stuck.

The other issue I had is down to the fact that I'm working at a level where I'm often asked to act as the senior AR the majority of the time. I was getting on fairly well with the home bench I was in front of, the one problem I had was they were getting a bit would up by the other bench. But due to the fact I had to spend a large amount of time running away up the line, the only thing I could really pick up from the away bench was some slightly over-enthusiastic appealing - and even if I did want to have a word and could find an appropriate time to do it, I didn't feel like I could risk taking my eye off the game and getting caught out by a quick break.

In the dissent incident I described above, the referee was distracted by talking to the away bench and threatening to send a manager away. He said after the match that he would have felt his decision to come over and talk to them would have had more credibility if I'd flagged him over rather than him having to react directly to something they said, but for the reason I talked about before, I didn't really hear anything that could possibly have justified calling him over - despite the fact that both him and the home bench obviously weren't happy with what the away bench were up to.

So any tips for keeping aware of what benches are up to behind you - and what kind of thing I should be looking out for to consider unacceptable? Compared to how in-control I now tend to feel in the middle, running a line feels so much down to the luck of the combination of players and ref, and you haven't really got much input into how the match goes - is that fair, or should I be asserting myself more somehow?
 

jofusref

RefChat Addict
#2
very difficult but if the ball goes out of play on the other half of the pitch have a word,
1st one ask,c calm down please guys
2nd tell right i have already asked you nicely now im telling you, calm down or i will get the ref to remove somebody
3nd act, flag up get the referee across let him/her dealwith it remember to tell the ref it is the 3rd warning
 

one

RefChat Addict
#3
The convention is for away team to sit behind AR1. Not that it matters much in your case.

Be sure to lookout for benches deliberately distracting you when they are attacking the goal on the side you are running to impact you missing offsides. Its something the referee should be made aware of too.

The different tollarance level can be managed the same was as the "ask, tell, remove" process. You would go through more asks and more tells, getting firmer everytime, before getting the referee involved. I'd make sure this is covered in pre match. Obviously it's a lot easier if you have worked with the referee before.

Keep in mind even with the benches you are only an assistant. Your job is not to be in control of the benches. Your job is to assist the referee be in control of the benches.
 
#4
I had an incidenta couple weeks back where something started outside the area in my half of the pitch. It involved home forward and away defender. The benches are in line with the 18 yard boxes each end so far apart too.
So as this started, the coach for home team, whose bench is behind me, leaves technical area, argues with me, shouts and swears (maybe not directed at me but lihd enough that if there were a crowd they'd had heard) and even puts a foot on the pitch getting completely in my way of both being on the line and seeing said incident.
Pressing the buzzer, I get referee attention and ask him to remove the coach as it is the 2nd time he has got in my way but this time I completely missed something because of his actions and no action could be made on the players as I couldn't get the defender for sure (there were 2 of them so by the time I could see I couldn't make out which of the two it was).

It is hard sometimes with benches...
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
#5
@GraemeS - This is always a difficult area for the inexperienced officials, acting as senior AR.

On the player dissent, you should have called the referee over to explain what had happened, if you feel that you couldn't control from the touchline. The referee, in response to the facts, will act accordingly - strong admonishment or cards as he sees fit. The fact you have called him over emphasis his control on the match.

On the bench, I am surprised that he did not ask you to be present when he came over. If you were there, you would hear his explanation and what he considered the next step to be - If you notice at the higher levels, the 4th official or senior AR is there when they bin an official.

As an observer, I expect the refereeing team to manage the technical areas to ensure compliance with the LOTG and the league rules. How they manage is their decision. More experience in tougher games will give you more knowledge on how to handle, but now follow the three step rule - Ask, Tell, Referee.
 
#6
See the big picture. Even if you have a ref who has basically asked for an easy life and had high tolerance for e.g. Fouls, dissent, incorrect throws... you still have a responsibility to act.

Player shows you borderline YC dissent? You must request a warning from your ref.

Benches causing aggro? Force your ref to pause the game at the next break in play so you can warn the benches. I would do this by shouting very loud to get the ref's attention, stepping on the field flag down, then shouting to tell I need 30 seconds to warn the benches - any other way here?


I think these are connected to being willing to make yourself unpopular as an AR (not unlike when you are in the middle). See an attacking throw taken incorrectly? You flag it even if your ref wouldn't because you are saving him/her from a potential goal/KMI snafu.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#7
See the big picture. Even if you have a ref who has basically asked for an easy life and had high tolerance for e.g. Fouls, dissent, incorrect throws... you still have a responsibility to act.

Player shows you borderline YC dissent? You must request a warning from your ref.

Benches causing aggro? Force your ref to pause the game at the next break in play so you can warn the benches. I would do this by shouting very loud to get the ref's attention, stepping on the field flag down, then shouting to tell I need 30 seconds to warn the benches - any other way here?


I think these are connected to being willing to make yourself unpopular as an AR (not unlike when you are in the middle). See an attacking throw taken incorrectly? You flag it even if your ref wouldn't because you are saving him/her from a potential goal/KMI snafu.
One point there to pick up on/discuss if I may - "You must request a warning from your ref"

I often been told by referees that they do NOT want to come over to benches and/or players just to 'warn' - they see that as your job.

Once you have 'used up' your warnings, THEN they will come over and issue cards (players/subs) and/or bin (benches).

Is that in accordance with others - especially the more senior refs on here who work with NARs consistently?

Thanks all
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#8
A match this weekend left me with a couple of questions around how to go about managing players and benches without actually being the one with the cards and whistles. While the referee did a very good job with a difficult away team, I noticed a couple "minor" fouls that he seemed to deliberately let go - and I understand it's part of my job to adjust to that, even if I would have been stricter in the middle.

Where I struggled was he also seemed to give more leeway on dissent that I would. So around 75 minutes when a player turned round to argue a decision with me, and the referee was distracted by an incident on the benches, I didn't really know how to take control of that situation - where if I was in the middle, I'm fairly sure my whistle would have helped and I would certainly have considered/threatened a card. But knowing the ref wouldn't want to card for what he was saying (which he confirmed in the dressing room after), I felt like I was stuck repeating a reason for my decision and hoping the player would go away. And I knew that waving the ref over and insisting on a card would have been totally out of tone with how he'd managed the match so far, so I felt a bit stuck.

The other issue I had is down to the fact that I'm working at a level where I'm often asked to act as the senior AR the majority of the time. I was getting on fairly well with the home bench I was in front of, the one problem I had was they were getting a bit would up by the other bench. But due to the fact I had to spend a large amount of time running away up the line, the only thing I could really pick up from the away bench was some slightly over-enthusiastic appealing - and even if I did want to have a word and could find an appropriate time to do it, I didn't feel like I could risk taking my eye off the game and getting caught out by a quick break.

In the dissent incident I described above, the referee was distracted by talking to the away bench and threatening to send a manager away. He said after the match that he would have felt his decision to come over and talk to them would have had more credibility if I'd flagged him over rather than him having to react directly to something they said, but for the reason I talked about before, I didn't really hear anything that could possibly have justified calling him over - despite the fact that both him and the home bench obviously weren't happy with what the away bench were up to.

So any tips for keeping aware of what benches are up to behind you - and what kind of thing I should be looking out for to consider unacceptable? Compared to how in-control I now tend to feel in the middle, running a line feels so much down to the luck of the combination of players and ref, and you haven't really got much input into how the match goes - is that fair, or should I be asserting myself more somehow?
Great questions Graeme - have often come across those very same difficulties myself.
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#9
As ref and as AR my experience has been the ref will warn if required, sometimes hearing from the referee rather than the AR has the desired effect

I think again based on my experiences, if ref does come to warn, its once only

I had a minor international few seasons ago where coach was giving my 4th a hard time throughout second half, eventually when time was right I went over and said

" look, my 4th been trying to manage you nicely, its not working, its my turn now and am not the nice one, its a long way to travel from Australia to watch a game from the dressing room, cos if I have reason to look at you again, thats where you are going".


As ref or AR if its a player, then I really can only see a sanction, not a warning

As AR i have no problem in telling benches " look if I get ref i over, someone WILL be going". A lot of benches think if the ref comes over its like a second chance, of course, if you say this, its advisable to follow it through
 
#10
One point there to pick up on/discuss if I may - "You must request a warning from your ref"

I often been told by referees that they do NOT want to come over to benches and/or players just to 'warn' - they see that as your job.

Once you have 'used up' your warnings, THEN they will come over and issue cards (players/subs) and/or bin (benches).

Is that in accordance with others - especially the more senior refs on here who work with NARs consistently?

Thanks all
Good point. As an AR I don't feel I/we have the authority to warn players in most cases. The referee decides who to card, when to card. If you warn a player as an AR, but then find out their next dissent was enough for you but not enough for the ref to card, you lose credibility and collective match control. Yes, first warning to benches from AR - proactive warnings from AR with ball in play, yes... but other than that I don't want my ARs to get into conversations with players related to foul/sanction tolerance when the ball is dead

- also the reality of positioning on the field means an AR is unlikely to preside over an offence and its aftermath without the ref. If there is a DFK in front of the AR beside the box then the AR can do the wall distance and watch for handball... But if that same DFK was borderline reckless, as a ref, I am going over to administer the warning and then maybe the AR can still do the wall depending on where I end up actually warning the player.

I am also thinking about off the ball stuff. If as AR I see two players off the ball behind the ref's back antigonising each other, about to explode, I'm going to request a warning from the ref at the next break in play. OK if they are right in front of me maybe I can do it... If I see an offence, of course I flag it... As a ref I want my ARs to help me proactively diffuse flashpoints...
 
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RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#11
If my assistant asks me to have a word with a player or coach I tell him not to come with me. Whilst I know that is non-standard, the reason is simple, and that is kidology and game management. I'll then go in to talk to the offender and say "look, based on what my assistant told me I was going to send you to he stands, but he wants to give you another chance so keep it calm please". That puts the assistant in the good books, and let's face it he's the one who has to stand there for the rest of the game and can't run away like I can.

I was sceptical when my coach first told me to try this, but it really does work. I've never had to go back over, whereas previously there were several occasions of the first warning not working and the offender subsequently getting binned.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#12
That sounds poorly managed by the ref IMO. I'm always at the understanding that even though we turn up as a team, we are all going to have different thresholds and opinions. Dissent is a big thing for me and one of the first things I always say to my AR's is that I don't care how low or high your tolerance level for dissent is, if you feel that line has been crossed, call me over and I'll back you 100%

I also don't agree with the referee saying that if you flag, that'll give you more credibility. If he spots it, he should be dealing with it. Not letting you put up with it. Waiting for you to flag is almost him saying 'I'll wait for you to take the blame, then I'll deal with it'
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#13
Dissent is a big thing for me and one of the first things I always say to my AR's is that I don't care how low or high your tolerance level for dissent is, if you feel that line has been crossed, call me over and I'll back you 100%
Yes, I'm in complete agreement, it is something that doesn't get covered much in my experience. :(
 

zonknz

New Member
#14
When I am in the middle, I let my ar1 know that I expect ask, tell, call me. And my action will be to dismiss. Likewise, when I am AR1, and my ref doesn't clarify expectations, I will state my expectations of their backing in ask, tell, call ref.

I have never had a ref quibble about this.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#15
If my assistant asks me to have a word with a player or coach I tell him not to come with me. Whilst I know that is non-standard, the reason is simple, and that is kidology and game management. I'll then go in to talk to the offender and say "look, based on what my assistant told me I was going to send you to he stands, but he wants to give you another chance so keep it calm please". That puts the assistant in the good books, and let's face it he's the one who has to stand there for the rest of the game and can't run away like I can.

I was sceptical when my coach first told me to try this, but it really does work. I've never had to go back over, whereas previously there were several occasions of the first warning not working and the offender subsequently getting binned.
Good advice. I am going to try this. My pre-match to AR1 is, he does the ask, I do the tell and remove. Trying this on the Tell phase can only have a positive outcome for AR1 and our team as a whole.
 
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