RefSix

Assistant referee

#1
Hi all,

After watching a few matches in the world cup I noticed that even if a player in an offside position ran after the ball, which was played when they were offside, the assistant referee only raised their flag when the player touched the ball. What I'm confused about is why the assistant didn't raise their flag earlier because surely the player was interfering with play by running at the ball?

Also, this isn't a question but I was wondering whether anyone had any tips for raising my flag for a throw in because sometimes it takes me a while to process which way to raise my flag even though I know who's kicked it out.

Thanks
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
#2
ARs were told to delay raising the flag if the decision is close and a goal scoring opportunity was present. This would allow a potential goal to be reviewed by VAR. Since you don't do any matches with VAR, then you don't need to worry about this. Raise the flag when you have an offside offense.
 
#3
ARs were told to delay raising the flag if the decision is close and a goal scoring opportunity was present. This would allow a potential goal to be reviewed by VAR. Since you don't do any matches with VAR, then you don't need to worry about this. Raise the flag when you have an offside offense.
Ah it makes sense now😁, thanks
 
#4
After watching a few matches in the world cup I noticed that even if a player in an offside position ran after the ball, which was played when they were offside, the assistant referee only raised their flag when the player touched the ball. What I'm confused about is why the assistant didn't raise their flag earlier because surely the player was interfering with play by running at the ball?
s
No. Running at the ball is not interfering with play. Interfering with play is defined as touching the ball. (There is an exception by which a player can be penalized for interference with play before actually getting to the ball where no other teammate has a chance to get to the ball—it’s simply the concept that if the only thing that can happen is OS, why wait and make the players keep running.) (see diagrams 3-5 at page 216 of the magic book.)
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#5
No. Running at the ball is not interfering with play. Interfering with play is defined as touching the ball. (There is an exception by which a player can be penalized for interference with play before actually getting to the ball where no other teammate has a chance to get to the ball—it’s simply the concept that if the only thing that can happen is OS, why wait and make the players keep running.) (see diagrams 3-5 at page 216 of the magic book.)
All correct. Interesting/wrong! yesterday that AR let Alex Morgan of USA run about 50 yards right near end of the match before putting up flag - there were no USA/Dutch players within a country mile. Ms Morgan not impressed and rightly so.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#6
All correct. Interesting/wrong! yesterday that AR let Alex Morgan of USA run about 50 yards right near end of the match before putting up flag - there were no USA/Dutch players within a country mile. Ms Morgan not impressed and rightly so.
That's what they have been told to do, and the lack of chasing defenders probably made it worse. She'd be worried that if she flagged early and Morgan wasn't actually offside she could have incorrectly denied a goal.
 
#7
That's what they have been told to do, and the lack of chasing defenders probably made it worse. She'd be worried that if she flagged early and Morgan wasn't actually offside she could have incorrectly denied a goal.
Well, no. With VAR they are supposed to delay the flag until after the scoring opportunity if the call is close and there is a scoring opportunity. So delaying the fag until Morgan got to the ball is not correct and has nothing to do with VAR. (I don't recall the specific play--I'm responding to @PinnerPaul 's description. ) Perhaps the delay was because the AR thought there was going to be a scoring opportunity and she flagged once she decided there was not--that would be consistent with the instructions/protocol. But all through the WWC the ARs (none of whom, I believe, had any prior experience with VAR) struggled with finding that balance on when to flag and when not to flag.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#8
That's what they have been told to do, and the lack of chasing defenders probably made it worse. She'd be worried that if she flagged early and Morgan wasn't actually offside she could have incorrectly denied a goal.
Except she was 10 yards offside and the ball was heading towards touch near the corner flag!:rolleyes:
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#9
Perhaps the delay was because the AR thought there was going to be a scoring opportunity and she flagged once she decided there was not
That's what I meant, although perhaps not worded too well. It initially looked like Morgan was through but had run out of steam, when it was clear there was no chance the AR flagged.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Except she was 10 yards offside and the ball was heading towards touch near the corner flag!:rolleyes:
I know, but my assumption was that because no defenders have chased back the AR assumed that she should still easily cut in on goal unchallenged. Guess only the AR will know though.

That is one of my biggest gripes, ARs should delay the flag if the offside is tight, but they are delaying it for the most obvious of obvious offsides that even a CAR would call correctly whilst holding the flag in one hand and a ciggy in the other .. :). This was one of them, as you say she was close to being 10 yards offside.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#11
I know, but my assumption was that because no defenders have chased back the AR assumed that she should still easily cut in on goal unchallenged. Guess only the AR will know though.

That is one of my biggest gripes, ARs should delay the flag if the offside is tight, but they are delaying it for the most obvious of obvious offsides that even a CAR would call correctly whilst holding the flag in one hand and a ciggy in the other .. :). This was one of them, as you say she was close to being 10 yards offside.
Yep, that's my gripe as well.

In general, and I guess this is acting on instruction, I think the ARs at WWC have not got involved nearly enough.

Fouls and balls in/out of play very close to them not flagged, until after ref has made the decision.

Accept that

a) This could be a directive and
b) Could be using comms

but it makes AR look indecisive at best and for some of the more obvious fouls, incompetent.
 
#12
I know, but my assumption was that because no defenders have chased back the AR assumed that she should still easily cut in on goal unchallenged. Guess only the AR will know though.

That is one of my biggest gripes, ARs should delay the flag if the offside is tight, but they are delaying it for the most obvious of obvious offsides that even a CAR would call correctly whilst holding the flag in one hand and a ciggy in the other .. :). This was one of them, as you say she was close to being 10 yards offside.
The best ARs were properly implementing the standards: they were delaying only on the close calls. But many seemed too worried about the delay concept to make the clear calls in the timely way they were supposed to. I think it comes down to practice: they started with VAR in the WC. So the final was what, their third game using VAR? The delay is a change from the instincts built up over years and years of training. I just don't find it too surprising that they found it hard to implement well.

In the US MLS, PRO issues weekly reviews for ARs, which in makes public. https://www.proassistantreferees.com/mls-week-in-review Since the implementation of VARs, they have regularly been discussing the challenges of properly implementing and executing the delay concept--and this is with ARs who now have a lot of VAR experience.
 
#13
As far as I can tell, neither the general question posed by @lucy707 nor the incident involving Morgan had anything to do with VAR, they are just examples of the fact that a player who is running after the ball has not committed an offside offence and the flag should not go up until the player actually interferes with play (i.e. touches the ball) or it is clear that, "no other team-mate in an onside position has the opportunity to play the ball."

ln the situation with Morgan, although I don't recall it specifically, it sounds as if the AR was waiting in case another US player who was in an onside position might make a run towards the ball. If they did, and Morgan gave up the chase then it would have been wrong to flag too early.
 
#15
As far as I can tell, neither the general question posed by @lucy707 nor the incident involving Morgan had anything to do with VAR, they are just examples of the fact that a player who is running after the ball has not committed an offside offence and the flag should not go up until the player actually interferes with play (i.e. touches the ball) or it is clear that, "no other team-mate in an onside position has the opportunity to play the ball."

ln the situation with Morgan, although I don't recall it specifically, it sounds as if the AR was waiting in case another US player who was in an onside position might make a run towards the ball. If they did, and Morgan gave up the chase then it would have been wrong to flag too early.
All perfectly correct Peter. This instance however falls within, common sense refereeing and having an emapathy with the game.

It was near the end, very hot conditions, USA 2-0 up and no other USA (Or Dutch) player within a country mile of the ball.

Player, USA, Netherlands all knew she was offside, so in this instance its just plain common sense to flag as soon as she makes a move towards the ball.

Making her run 30/40 yards and flag when she touches the ball right by the touchline, approaching the corner flag is just daft.
 
#16
Hi all,

After watching a few matches in the world cup I noticed that even if a player in an offside position ran after the ball, which was played when they were offside, the assistant referee only raised their flag when the player touched the ball. What I'm confused about is why the assistant didn't raise their flag earlier because surely the player was interfering with play by running at the ball?

Also, this isn't a question but I was wondering whether anyone had any tips for raising my flag for a throw in because sometimes it takes me a while to process which way to raise my flag even though I know who's kicked it out.

Thanks
Also they might know that they are in an offside position and may not touch the ball. Laws state that it is not an offence to be in an offside position
 
Top