Arsenal Vs Bournemouth

[socal lurker]

I think this is clear red for reasons already explained above. But a genuine hypothetical question for those who think clear red also. Replace White with Van de Ven. Would it still be clear red?

Ido ‘t k ow the players, but I assume you mean a slower player. No, I son’s think opportunities are supposed to be judged based on the player. By the general level of play, yes, but not player by player.

 

[one]

Ido ‘t k ow the players, but I assume you mean a slower player. No, I son’s think opportunities are supposed to be judged based on the player. By the general level of play, yes, but not player by player.

Van de Ven is easily the fastest EPL player, centre back for Spurs. You can video search his defending speed.

I don't agree or disagree with your view. But the flip side of the argument is, you either consider player skill into play or you don't, general level of play is basically a consideration for player skill. We can't consider it for attackers as he would have no issue with distance, but not for defenders if the defender can catch him over that distance.

PS, get a bigger keyboard

 

[Runner Ref]

Wondering if the player fouled is in an offsides position, I don't understand how it could be DOGSO. If the player touches the ball, he's offsides. How can that be "Denial of a goal scoring opportunity"? I don't disagree with a foul, but it can't be a goal scoring opportunity if the player would have been called offsides, can it? Definitely a strange sequence.

The ball was played by an Arsenal player, so can’t be offside

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

made even more dubious by the camera panning to Howard Webb in the stand with a finger to his ear and texting!

Sorry this is laughable, Webb is clearly listening to the VAR and either making notes or messaging someone about the decision (not an official on the game ofc). If PGMOL wanted to influence this game they wouldn’t sit Webb in full view, he’d be in some windowless box watching on TV.

It’s a red card anyway, Evanilson has as much as 15-20 yards less to run and has space to his right he can use to put even more distance between him and White and still have a GSO. Feel like 20 years ago we’d be talking about a club having discipline issues but instead now it’s all about officials and the people being paid a refs salary every week can do no wrong.

 

[santa sangria]

Sorry this is laughable, Webb is clearly listening to the VAR and either making notes or messaging someone about the decision (not an official on the game ofc). If PGMOL wanted to influence this game they wouldn’t sit Webb in full view, he’d be in some windowless box watching on TV.

It’s a red card anyway, Evanilson has as much as 15-20 yards less to run and has space to his right he can use to put even more distance between him and White and still have a GSO. Feel like 20 years ago we’d be talking about a club having discipline issues but instead now it’s all about officials and the people being paid a refs salary every week can do no wrong.

Webb presented very badly on TV. Redknapp defending him still looked poor. The whole scenario was really poor from the whole officiating team right up to the top. The call on the field was bad, VAR getting involved with a highly subjective decision also bad, the boss listening in IN THE STANDS also really bad. One does really wonder about the ivory tower here.

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

Webb presented very badly on TV. Redknapp defending him still looked poor. The whole scenario was really poor from the whole officiating team right up to the top. The call on the field was bad, VAR getting involved with a highly subjective decision also bad, the boss listening in IN THE STANDS also really bad. One does really wonder about the ivory tower here.

Why? Pretty much everyone gets access to that VAR feed, commentary teams for example. As a senior official and head of PGMOL surely it benefits him to be able to hear the full picture whilst watching. Like blaming an observer for writing notes.

 

[Paul_10]

Im probably in the minority here but I thought it was harsh, Bournemouth player not in control of the ball, distance to goal and every chance Ben White could recover. As it been said was a yellow clearly and obviously wrong?

As for the Howard Webb stuff then I blame him and Sky tbh. Howard himself for being there, why is he there, surely he can analyse any refereeing decisions in a calmer environment, don't know if the match officials know he's there(If they didn't they will soon assume once Arsenal fans chanted his name) but why put extra pressure on them in that way and Sky has to take blame for panning the camera on him during the incident which when you see he's got a ear piece and a mobile phone is basically giving the conspiracy nutters an early xmas present(I mean even Jamie Carragher was at it, possibly in jest but he now deleted his tweet). I think in fairness to Howard he had been to televised games before but I wonder if this may change.

 

[DavidObs]

Im probably in the minority here but I thought it was harsh, Bournemouth player not in control of the ball, distance to goal and every chance Ben White could recover. As it been said was a yellow clearly and obviously wrong?

As for the Howard Webb stuff then I blame him and Sky tbh. Howard himself for being there, why is he there, surely he can analyse any refereeing decisions in a calmer environment, don't know if the match officials know he's there(If they didn't they will soon assume once Arsenal fans chanted his name) but why put extra pressure on them in that way and Sky has to take blame for panning the camera on him during the incident which when you see he's got a ear piece and a mobile phone is basically giving the conspiracy nutters an early xmas present(I mean even Jamie Carragher was at it, possibly in jest but he now deleted his tweet). I think in fairness to Howard he had been to televised games before but I wonder if this may change.

Of course he should be there. He is not just about viewing MCS. He is there to watch the performance of the officials from minute one to the end of stoppage time at the end of the 2nd half. You can gain a lot more from seeing the game live from a stand rather than from a tv set/laptop. Can you imagine the head of SG1 Referees/AR1s not ever seeing live a performance of his flock! Unthinkable and would be a dereliction of duty!

 

[Runner Ref]

Im probably in the minority here but I thought it was harsh, Bournemouth player not in control of the ball, distance to goal and every chance Ben White could recover. As it been said was a yellow clearly and obviously wrong?

As for the Howard Webb stuff then I blame him and Sky tbh. Howard himself for being there, why is he there, surely he can analyse any refereeing decisions in a calmer environment, don't know if the match officials know he's there(If they didn't they will soon assume once Arsenal fans chanted his name) but why put extra pressure on them in that way and Sky has to take blame for panning the camera on him during the incident which when you see he's got a ear piece and a mobile phone is basically giving the conspiracy nutters an early xmas present(I mean even Jamie Carragher was at it, possibly in jest but he now deleted his tweet). I think in fairness to Howard he had been to televised games before but I wonder if this may change.

If he never went to games he’d be criticised for hiding behind a screen and never being seen. Every PL game has a PGMOL rep there, so HW being there isn’t really any different.

I’m not sure if we have confirmation he was listening into the feed or not, but if he was, so what? As @OnlyUseMeWhistle said, commentary teams can listen into it, so why can’t the head of the whole thing?

In terms of the decision, for me red is correct. But I do agree that this is yet another one that could easily be justified as a yellow. To me, that then means there should be no VAR input. But this is the situation we have found ourselves in.

Get a challenge based system in for the clubs to invoke and see how we go.

 

[Kent Ref]

I do not think the attacker was DEFINITELY getting the ball and the centre circle puts doubts on the distance tick.

If i produced a red on a sunday morning there would be a riot.

 

[Paul_10]

Of course he should be there. He is not just about viewing MCS. He is there to watch the performance of the officials from minute one to the end of stoppage time at the end of the 2nd half. You can gain a lot more from seeing the game live from a stand rather than from a tv set/laptop. Can you imagine the head of SG1 Referees/AR1s not ever seeing live a performance of his flock! Unthinkable and would be a dereliction of duty!

Might be wrong but was Mike Riley ever seen at games? I mean it shouldn't be an issue but it becomes an issue when you got a broadcaster who is irresponsible by panning to him right on the moment of the incident whilst he got ear piece and a mobile phone in shot. Sums Sky up when one of their employees also questions whether he's interfered with the decision although I like to think he said it tongue in cheek.

 

[Runner Ref]

Might be wrong but was Mike Riley ever seen at games? I mean it shouldn't be an issue but it becomes an issue when you got a broadcaster who is irresponsible by panning to him right on the moment of the incident whilst he got ear piece and a mobile phone in shot. Sums Sky up when one of their employees also questions whether he's interfered with the decision although I like to think he said it tongue in cheek.

Yep, Mike Riley was definitely seen at games. The difference is that even when Riley was in charge, this focus and obsession of referees wasn’t as high as it is right now. So the TV companies wouldn’t put as much of a focus on them being there. But as referees are seemingly the pantomime villains these days, they know they’ll get a story if they can get a 5 second shot of them doing absolutely anything no matter how minute

 

[Runner Ref]

I do not think the attacker was DEFINITELY getting the ball and the centre circle puts doubts on the distance tick.

If i produced a red on a sunday morning there would be a riot.

We aren’t psychic, so we can never say x,y&z would have definitely happened. We’re looking for something likely or obvious. The below 2 screenshots are point of contact and then half a second later. I’d say it’s a hell of a lot more likely than the attacker is getting to the ball than anyone else if he isn’t fouled. Raya isn’t even in the picture frame and White is a good few yards behind. So if attacker isn’t getting the ball, who is?

 

[DavidObs]

Yep, Mike Riley was definitely seen at games. The difference is that even when Riley was in charge, this focus and obsession of referees wasn’t as high as it is right now. So the TV companies wouldn’t put as much of a focus on them being there. But as referees are seemingly the pantomime villains these days, they know they’ll get a story if they can get a 5 second shot of them doing absolutely anything no matter how minute

Howard has to do his job in the way he thinks best & he will now have to think about how to do this to improve the perception.

 

[Runner Ref]

Howard has to do his job in the way he thinks best & he will now have to think about how to do this to improve the perception.

I think we’d all agree things can be improved. But I don’t think there’s a lot he could do to change perception.

He goes to games, seen as a negative.

He does a TV show explaining decisions, seen as a megative

Stays out of the spotlight, seen as a negative.

You could put him on commentary in the way they use Mike Dean and it would still be seen as a negative.

 

[santa sangria]

Why? Pretty much everyone gets access to that VAR feed, commentary teams for example. As a senior official and head of PGMOL surely it benefits him to be able to hear the full picture whilst watching. Like blaming an observer for writing notes.

He shouldn’t have an earpiece in at the match. Attend, fine. Review, fine. Pictured live talking with earpiece in just looks bad.

 

[Paul_10]

Get a challenge based system in for the clubs to invoke and see how we go.

How would a challenge system work though? You will still get the referee going to the screen and no doubt change his mind because that is what they do anyways.

I would love for someone to ask Howard, if a referee rejects an review, will he be marked down? Because whilst I think the high bar is a factor, I do find it incredible since the start of last season, only 1 referee has rejected a VAR review(Darren England in Villa v Palace if memory serves me right). This incident could be an example where Rob thinks his on field call is right because of distance/attacker have not got control of the ball. Given it involves one of the big 6 I would imagine it will be featured on the next mic'd up programme so it will be interesting to hear the conversation behind it.

 

[Kent Ref]

I think this is a definite case of "i'll show yellow and let VAR save me if i'm wrong".

 

[one]

He shouldn’t have an earpiece in at the match. Attend, fine. Review, fine. Pictured live talking with earpiece in just looks bad.

This. The only reasons anyone would want live comms stream is that if he/she would want to fed back into decisions making. That is why all match officials have the comms gear. All comms are recorded and Webbs can review it at a later time. Why would he want live comms streamed to him if he is not a match official? Does anyone else get that privilege and why?

 

[Runner Ref]

How would a challenge system work though? You will still get the referee going to the screen and no doubt change his mind because that is what they do anyways.

I would love for someone to ask Howard, if a referee rejects an review, will he be marked down? Because whilst I think the high bar is a factor, I do find it incredible since the start of last season, only 1 referee has rejected a VAR review(Darren England in Villa v Palace if memory serves me right). This incident could be an example where Rob thinks his on field call is right because of distance/attacker have not got control of the ball. Given it involves one of the big 6 I would imagine it will be featured on the next mic'd up programme so it will be interesting to hear the conversation behind it.

Give the clubs x amount of challenges a game and stipulate type of decisions that can and can’t be challenged. If challenge is won, they keep a challenge. If it’s lost, they lose one.

Will the referee always change their mind? Who knows, but I’m not convinced as they’re being sent to screen by a club who maybe don’t have 100% understanding of laws or expectations vs their own colleagues.

Would it be perfect? No. Would it be better than what we currently have? Anything is better!