A&H

AR 'tip'

P

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
Just seen a video on BBC. Sian Massey helping a 'development referee' who attended a course with her.

Near the end Sian tells the 'new' referee that she looks at the feet when judging offsides. She qualifies this by saying 'Its often the trailing foot that plays an attacker on side'

Anyone else heard this advice/tip?
 
The Referee Store
Yeah. It's usually the trailing foot of the defender keeping the attacker onside. Combined with the flash lag effect, they are the two common reasons ARs incorrectly put their flag up.
 
Hawkey/VAR has a faux 3D version of the offside line that can take into account the upper body, the attackers upper body can be significantly further forward than it appears on the 2D image,
 
This is what she means.

zYP7iqS.png


If you look at the answers in the 2nd half of the video, in almost every case (where the defender is stepping up), the defenders heel is determining where the offside line is.

 
cwyeary said:
This is what she means.

zYP7iqS.png


If you look at the answers in the 2nd half of the video, in almost every case (where the defender is stepping up), the defenders heel is determining where the offside line is.

Click to expand...
Most of those are just guesswork (although I'd bet Massey would get all of them right!), but then how often do you get opponents legging it in opposite directions? Thankfully most offsides are not as difficult to call as these
 
Big Cat said:
Most of those are just guesswork, but then how often do you get opponents legging it in opposite directions? Thankfully most offsides are not as difficult to call as these
Click to expand...

Those situations not guesswork at the FIFA level. You're generally expected to get 90 to 95% of those right.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: one
Big Cat said:
Most of those are just guesswork (although I'd bet Massey would get all of them right!), but then how often do you get opponents legging it in opposite directions? Thankfully most offsides are not as difficult to call as these
Click to expand...
The practice may appear exaggerated but the micro mechanics of these situations occur with much more frequency that you are realising.
I've experienced these exercises in person and the success rates of ARs after these is much higher higher than when they previously had no knowledge of such nuances.
As the saying goes - "The harder you work, the luckier you get."
Guesswork doesn't come into it.
 
20/25 on that video isn't terrible - made harder than a real life situation due to lack of sound IMO. Plus I'm pretty sure I gave clip 19 onside because the ball didn't go to the player in an offside position, but the answers say it's offside simply because of the position of the other player, and don't wind it on to see if he becomes active or not. So I'm counting that - 21/25! ;)
 
Last edited:
If you want to use the term guesswork, I would prefix it with 'educated'. The more you aducate yourself on how the mechanism works, the less guess is involved. At the top end they hardly ever guess.
 
one said:
If you want to use the term guesswork, I would prefix it with 'educated'. The more you aducate yourself on how the mechanism works, the less guess is involved. At the top end they hardly ever guess.
Click to expand...
However, i doubt most elite referees would be seeing double and nursing a New Year's Day hangover when presiding over this test :drool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: one
Big Cat said:
Most of those are just guesswork (although I'd bet Massey would get all of them right!), but then how often do you get opponents legging it in opposite directions? Thankfully most offsides are not as difficult to call as these
Click to expand...


Impossible to reveal anything about anything other than a basic knowledge of the offside law by using clips like this
Watching the clips pretending we are the AR here gives a false impression, its nothing like real time, real time we are not sitting down contemplating when to shout "offside" at a screen, real time, we are looking also for fouls, we don't know the next passage of play will involve an offside call, we are tying to keep referee in view, we don't stand in a rigid position waiting for a call, there is no crowd to influence us, its not cold and we are moving hands on flag to keep warm, we are not also dealing with a bench shouting at us some of us will tire and not be in perfect position for 90 mins, there might/might not be lines along the park/advertising boards at the other end for us to use as markers and so on..
Guesswork should not be totally ruled out. Luck is certainly a factor. Yes the more you practise the better you will, or should be. Our elite might hit 9 out of 10, our pub lino might indeed hit the remaining one spot on. Each call is vital and the one offside an elite misses, a lesser lino might spot. Hence the element of luck.
 
GraemeS said:
made harder than a real life situation due to lack of sound IMO
Click to expand...
Here is a good example of why knowing/not knowing the mechanism impacts the decision.

You have to be very careful when using sound as a guide. If you are using the sound of the ball being kick (instead of your peripheral vision), and it's kick from about 35 meters away, you can be off by more than a meter in your estimatiin of offside. (Happy to do the math for anyone interested)
 
one said:
Here is a good example of why knowing/not knowing the mechanism impacts the decision.

You have to be very careful when using sound as a guide. If you are using the sound of the ball being kick (instead of your peripheral vision), and it's kick from about 35 meters away, you can be off by more than a meter in your estimatiin of offside. (Happy to do the math for anyone interested)
Click to expand...
Of course, but by making that point, all you're doing is reinforcing the argument that it's down to guesswork/luck. No one has a wide enough field of vision that they can simultaneously see a player 35 yards down the line to their left and 35 yards across the pitch in front of them.

So you can then either flick your eyes between the two players, hoping that you don't lose track of the offside line and/or happen to look in the wrong place at the wrong time, or keep track of the offside line/attacker and use sound as a guide for timing of the pass. Neither is perfect, therefore both lead to the offside/not offside decision being little more than an educated guess. And we're back where we started.....
 
GraemeS said:
Of course, but by making that point, all you're doing is reinforcing the argument that it's down to guesswork/luck. No one has a wide enough field of vision that they can simultaneously see a player 35 yards down the line to their left and 35 yards across the pitch in front of them.

So you can then either flick your eyes between the two players, hoping that you don't lose track of the offside line and/or happen to look in the wrong place at the wrong time, or keep track of the offside line/attacker and use sound as a guide for timing of the pass. Neither is perfect, therefore both lead to the offside/not offside decision being little more than an educated guess. And we're back where we started.....
Click to expand...
Not really. If the angle makes it impossible to use perpberal vision then you can do either sound or quick turn of head. Knowing the mechanism, you take into account the distance, speed etc and make an educated decision (guess) based on all factors. You then bring the margin of error down from over a meter to a few inches. The more 'educated' you are at this and the more you have practiced (training and experience), the less the margin of error.
 
Last edited:
At grassroots levels you are probably better off being ignorant of the flash lag effect as without video everybody in the stadium including an observer who will probably begrudgingly back will be thinking its well offside.
 
bester said:
At grassroots levels you are probably better off being ignorant of the flash lag effect as without video everybody in the stadium including an observer who will probably begrudgingly back will be thinking its well offside.
Click to expand...

I agree - without video these are so close, that either call is going to get shouts of 'Good call Lino' AND 'Never lino'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top