RefSix

Alajuelense vs Atlanta

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
I think football expects a red.
If you want to get out some physical modelling software, you might be able to prove the attacker could not regain possession - but then someone might argue that the attacker had to slow down and/or kick the ball longer because a foul was so obviously imminent and injury was threatened.
And the 4 considerations are considerations - not traffic light criteria. There are all kinds of situations where one or more considerations are not 100% fulfilled or are 0% fulfilled.

Easy red card I think. Two against one, sliding tackle out of control outside the box.
Shame the referee pulled the YC first. Perhaps he got some advice from the 4th?
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
i'm ok with a red here for dogso. i dont think it's clear cut but it's not wrong by any means and is more supportable than a yellow
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
I can see what you are saying but I think this is football expects dogso here. You can say he wouldn't have regained possession, but had the keeper not come hurtling out at him in such a reckless manner then he perhaps wouldn't have had to knock it so far.
It's fine margins, for sure, but I think I support a DOGSO here, 2 players V 1 keeper, the overall situation is obvious GSO.

To add, what on earth is that carding procedure, buried amongst about 10 players. Get Em all shifted and then give it.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
I actually think there is a good chance he would have got to the ball. His team mate form a few yard back and a standing start almost got there. The fouled player had momentum and further up. I'm going red too.
 

RefIADad

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Red no doubt for me. The tackle itself was borderline SFP. Combine that with it just "feels" like a DOGSO, I agree completely with the others saying the game expects a send-off here.

From @JamesL - "To add, what on earth is that carding procedure, buried amongst about 10 players. Get Em all shifted and then give it."

Welcome to CONCACAF refereeing. Let's just say that it's . . . interesting.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
I think there is more than a good enough chance of the attacker getting to the ball without the foul. The still below is taken immediately after he was fouled, it isn't as if the ball has gone that far away from him. As others have said, the game expects a red card there.

That said, it is really bad officiating. If any of his colleagues think it was red they should be in his ear straight away, it isn't as if he pulled the yellow out so quickly they didn't have a chance to come in. Once the yellow came out they should have stayed out of it, it made it look like the players changed his mind. (I'm assuming he definitely wasn't already on a caution?)

1617816270217.png
 

RefIADad

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
I think there is more than a good enough chance of the attacker getting to the ball without the foul. The still below is taken immediately after he was fouled, it isn't as if the ball has gone that far away from him. As others have said, the game expects a red card there.

That said, it is really bad officiating. If any of his colleagues think it was red they should be in his ear straight away, it isn't as if he pulled the yellow out so quickly they didn't have a chance to come in. Once the yellow came out they should have stayed out of it, it made it look like the players changed his mind. (I'm assuming he definitely wasn't already on a caution?)

View attachment 4877
Guzan (the goalkeeper) was not on a caution. This was a straight red with no previous caution. I honestly have no idea with Martinez (the referee) was thinking starting to pull the yellow out first. He ultimately made the right call, but wow are the optics bad here.

We use the saying "getting CONCACAFed" with regularity in North America. The suspect officiating is one of the reasons why. For whatever reason, CONCACAF officials are incredibly reluctant to give out cards. In the 2019 Gold Cup final (our version of the Euros), the referee gave out one caution in a match between the US and Mexico that should have ended 10 v 9 (with the US being the 9). I guess the fans of old-time English "proper football" would be OK with this, but some of the tackles that get away with maybe a foul being called defy belief. Skilled players simply get no protection from CONCACAF referees. I'm not just saying this as a US fan. Mexico's skilled players get roughed up as well. Couple that with bad pitches, ramshackle "stadiums", and incredible amounts of gamesmanship, and any road qualifer in CONCACAF is an adventure.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict

LOL. Is it that FIFA refs are briefed to avoid sending players off where possible?

So, anything subjective is yellower, any dogso (Felix!) that can be ignored is ignored, any VC that can be missed is missed, any SFP that can be downgraded is, and second yellows that could be given for delay of game are avoided if possible, OFFINABUS is just not heard...

Is this actually the two tier system we have in football refereeing (less a technological divide)?
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Exhibit A of the dart-throwing that is CONCACAF refereeing. Keep in mind that a referee who has a FIFA badge ruled this as a caution.

This was a horrible tackle but I am still wondering how did the tackled player mange to throw in a break dancing move after the tackle?

And I believe they had VAR on this. How is a yellow not a clear and obvious error here? And the neck grab as mention by Santa.
 

PP62

Well-Known Member
Level 5 Referee
And nobody went to see if the tackled player was ok! He was still lay there while everyone else was playing Rambo.
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
The original tackle and the first person are clear RED's. Others might not be seen clearly as behind Refs back (Red 10). But WTF to only being yellows - did they think it was gridiron?
 

RefIADad

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
And I believe they had VAR on this. How is a yellow not a clear and obvious error here? And the neck grab as mention by Santa.

CONCACAF competitions like this (it's our version of the Champions League) do not use VAR. The only two leagues in the region that have the setup for VAR are Liga MX and MLS.

As for other comments, this is par for the course in CONCACAF refereeing. It takes you back to the 1970s English-style "proper football". You'll get differing opinions on whether this is based on lack of experience for referees who don't have a decent professional league in their home countries, the consistency of training and expectations, or straight up CONCACAF corruption (we have plenty of that on this side of the Atlantic as well), but no one who follows CONCACAF is overly surprised at this sequence of events. My opinion is that CONCACAF wants its referees to look good in their kit, excel on their fitness tests, and do everything possible to not issue cards. The quality of the game in the region suffers because plays like this are not sanctioned well at all.

Like I've said before, if I were Raul Jiminez, I would think long and hard about playing in a CONCACAF competition for Mexico even if and when he's cleared to play again. I fear for his safety (and I'm far from a Mexico NT fan).
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
The original tackle and the first person are clear RED's. Others might not be seen clearly as behind Refs back (Red 10). But WTF to only being yellows - did they think it was gridiron?

Yep. I saw 3 reds minimum there.

What a shambles...
 
Top