A&H

Advantage - how to re-start; correct booking !?

Alex71

Alex71

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Incident from the weekend - advise please
  • Red winger is fouled by Blue left-back (just a careless foul, no more)
  • I play an advantage as Red has the ball and is running with ball away from Blue left-back
  • Red's second touch is too heavy, he's lost control of the ball - I move whistle towards mouth to bring play back (no advantage)
  • As I blow, the Red winger (in an attempt to keep control of the ball) is recklessly late on another Blue player
  • I give a free-kick to Blue (for for the second offence and booked Red)
I don't think I got it right - could / should I have booked Red AND give him the free-kick !?

Thanks, Alex
 
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I'm not too sure, but without checking LOTG, you should have booked red and give him the freekick, however, its very easy to sell what you did, so I wouldn't have a problem with it :)

Somebody might beable to give the exact LOTG stance though.
 
He's gained the advantage, not your problem he's got no touch.

In my opinion, you were 100% correct in everything you did.

What was players reaction?
 
Agree with Dan, its his fault he took the heavy touch not yours or the other player then again no one forces him to make a reckless tackle.
 
It was a hard-ish sell to Red players - some of which chirped as we all lined up for the restart ... the one I booked kept saying it was his advantage and that it had to come back, irrelevant of what he did - seemed he literally wanted a "free kick" at the Blue player! ... Had some sympathy though as my whistle was on route to my lips to go back for the first offence having, IMO, not gained a sufficient advantage from the first foul.

Thanks for replying to the post
Alex
 
When playing advantage, be mindful of the fact that you could have to call it back. By that, I mean keep the whistle ready to blow so it's instantaneous from lack of advantage to free-kick. Tbh, you could have sold it either way.

Re-reading, I would have done it slightly different personally (although, I still think you did nothing wrong).

I probably would have called it back for original foul and cautioned both. Easy to sell (that's for the original one, that's for the OTT reaction), even though the first wasn't warranting of a YC. Aids match control, players will see that you're happy to pull back if no advantage and also, shows you're not afraid to caution if needs be.

Don't beat yourself up, any of the possible conclusions were right!

I'd be interested to hear what any of the assessor's on here think, especially those who have assessed Supply level.
 
From what you've said I personally feel that what you've done is correct, you could have gone back from the advantage however I think you should always punish the most serious offense so in this case the late, reckless challenge
 
yes I would of punished the reckless challenge. but then I would of called over that defender and then tell him to start minding his tackles and that then he got warned as well so that then it looks good then he knows and the others players you are now getting serious
 
For me you were correct in what you did. Although to be fair I think you could have sold it either way.
 
I'm going to pull this one out a bit more. Where on the field did the first foul occur? Which half? How close to goal or near the touchlines?

The reason I ask this is because just retaining possession is not always an advantage (sometimes is is). Given the location of the play was advantage really appropriate? Could you avoid the same situation in future my giving the free kick straight away?

I ask as similar happened in a game in which I was the A/R. The referee did exactly what you describe only for the fouled player to plant both feet in the opponents shin.
 
Incident happened on the touchline 25 yards from the corner flag - the Red winger was moving across the pitch when he was then late on the 2nd blue player ... 15 mins into the match

I over play the advantage - try to use "advantage" to give the offended-against team as much opportunity as possible - I've seen the Red Amber Green charts for which areas of the pitch you are more likely to play advantage - still happy to give advantage a go pretty much anywhere - but maybe I've seen to much rugby - perhaps play longer advantages than most knowing I can come back ...

There were a few players around the Red winger and they'd have had a good ball into the box from the free-kick (if given!) but it looked promising with ball at feet - albeit perhaps only for a second or two
 
I don't think he gained the advantage when he had a heavy second touch -- advantage carries on for a few seconds or it should get called back. That said, you would have been right to call it back, give the FK to red but also caution red winger for his reckless tackle (if you use the proper procedure: call him over, tell him what he's done and what the punishment is, take his name and number, show him the yellow card, show him the red card) than it should be pretty clear to him and anyone around him that he's going because, even though he lost advantage, he can't go diving into tackles like he did with impunity.
 
A little imagination needed here as we are going to a virtual 360o rotating camera set-up. Freeze frame the incident you described in your head. Assume the goal the red is attacking is 0o (or 12 o’clock if you prefer). Your position for the sake of this is at 270o / 9 oclock.

Now rotate your camera view anti clockwise to 90o / 3 o clock position. You are viewing from the touchline looking infield with the goal in view. Now consider the view. You can let Red try and recover the ball in which case he could either then try to head for goal, or beat the next defender and cross it. We don’t know how many players he has to aim at (and neither do you as you view this incident from your original 270o position).

Alternatively, you can stop the play and award the free kick. This allows Red to fill the box. They have the choice of a free cross into the danger area, or even a quick sideways pass that eliminates 2-3 opponents (who are standing in the wall).

Which of these gives the greater advantage?

Now… I know that you don’t have time for this thought process during the game but the point I am making can be decided on a split-second. What is the greater advantage?

With play so close to the touchline I would be more inclined to give the free-kick straight away. Many players will say “Yeah, ok Ref, take your point” if when you blow you say “Even if you did carry on, you’ve nothing to aim at.” Or “There’s no-one to cross to.”

Some will complain, but then these are the superstars who would have made it as in the professional game had the Chairman’s wife’s feng-shui consultant not sneezed when the planets were retrograding through Sagittarius.
 
Imagination working - can picture myself there (well, it was my game!) - but also from the 3 o'clock position you mention - thanks Tealeaf ...

Picture me quite near to the action and the Red Winger running in field towards the centre of the clock - I've no idea what is going on behind me and at 12 o'clock - the Winger could have picked out in his mind a killer pass - or - there was nothing going on that could even potentially be better than a good quality free-kick into the 'box, albeit with the Blue defending team lined up too ...

It was fairly early in the game - haven't worked out if the player is a Ronaldo or Ronald McDonald - so maybe I'm leaning more to the general view of this thread of blowing on the first foul (blue on red) if I haven't (which I didn't) have a better understanding of what's on when playing advantage that's more than, in this case, one player getting away from another

Thanks folks - very beneficial :)
 
Well the LOTG state the two offences happening at the same time then the more serious offence must be punished, so I guess it could come under that.

Where did the initial foul happen? To me it sounds like it happend in the red players defensive third, if so then I'd recommend not really playing advantage there at this level as 9 times out of 10 its not going to come off
 
Alex71 said:
Hi Roo - it was in Red's attacking third (25 yards or so from corner flag)
Click to expand...
Ah fair enough, not too much wrong with playing an advantage there. :)

Whether it was the right thing to do or not, it's impossible to say without being there. Did the red player actually gain and advantage and then lose it, or did he never really have an advantage. These are the things you'd need to question yourself since you were the one there. But there was certainly nothing wrong with what you did :)
 
Whether you were right to give the foul to the blue team or not, it's necessary to take a lesson from the situation. Just remember always to be switched on to a player's challenge whether or not the ball is in play. Probably a more common example would be if the ball is just out for a throw in and a late tackle comes in. Just remember that a player is sanctionable for any challenge he makes for the ball even if the whistle has already been blown. It can put you in a difficult position as far as selling it to the players, but it could impress an assessor if you are seen to be able to focus on more than one incident at the same time.

Personally in this instance, I would have cautioned red and given the free kick to red as it doesn't seem like the advantage had fully developed. Would have to have seen it though, theoretically discussing it and putting it in to practice on the field of play are two completely different dimensions though.
 
Roo said:
Well the LOTG state the two offences happening at the same time then the more serious offence must be punished, so I guess it could come under that.
Click to expand...

No it can't; the blue player fouled the red player before the red player committed the bookable offence against the blue player. The FK goes to red, the misconduct card goes to red too.
 
Re two offences at the same time ...

My local RA (Barking & Dagenham) gave the following example to a recent meeting to gauge opinion in the room:

Green player having treatment off to the side of the pitch - sees the opposition (Yellow) breaking forward down the wing ... Green player rushes back on to the pitch and RECKLESSLY TRIPS the Yellow player a few yards inside the pitch ...

I thought that this would come under the "two offences at the same time" law and would only caution the Green player once, albeit having committed two yellow card offences ... I was in the minority in the room - and apparently I was incorrect too !! !!
 
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